jlutherva

When you buy HPDE insurance you probably think you are buying a "Declared Value" policy. That's not the way it works. If you total your car and you have it over insured, you will have to justify the "Actual Cost Value" or ACV. This value is the price that you could get in a sale. In the case of a non-modded car, this is as straight-forward as looking up the value in Kelley's Blue Book. For a slightly modded car, you should make sure you have listed all mods on the insurance application and have receipts and pics would help too.

Race cars car be a major problem. How do you establish a ACV for a race car? How do you defend the value that you come up with? For example, I insured my race car for $51,000. That value is significantly less than what I have in the car, but is about what I thought I could sell it for. The insurance company came back with an ACV of $42,550.

This is still in negotiation, but I'm thinking that I overpaid for coverage.

Jim

oh1vette

In for outcome....

Only did it once but my understanding was the insurance cost was related to the car value you indicated and therefore what would be paid out in the event of a total...

jlutherva

Yup, that's what I thought also. I was wrong
Jim

PaConehead

Well, I certainly thought "Declared Value" was just that - once the company accepted the declared value and set the pricing (premium); that would the amount paid in the the event of a total loss - silly me!! Good Luck with resolving this.

c4cruiser

Is all HPDE insurance the same? At least from the same company or group?

What happens to the regular insurance should somebody total his car at a track event? Some companies will cancel your "regular" policy if they find out you were even at an event much less taking part. If you have more than one car on a policy, that could be a huge issue. I would expect that a payout for a total loss on a car would be reported and other insurance companies might see that.

Have you talked to Adam Boca at the NCM to see if he can help you with HPDE coverage that provides adequate value declarations?

jlutherva

I don't know how OnTrackInsurance.com handles values but I would bet it's the same as Lockton Affinity. I'm sure that the reason for the ACV is to prevent someone from over insuring a car then intentionally wrecking it.

I doubt that your auto insurance company will not be made aware of a claim made on the HPDE policies unless you tell them. That did not happen on a previous HPDE claim that I had several years ago.

I'm only aware of the two HPDE insurance companies mentioned above. NCM has not offered this type of insurance in the past. NCM does offer "Race Car" insurance that provides coverage for trailering, fire, theft and paddock damage.

Jim

2 GTOs

My Lockton policy states in the case of a total loss they will cover the lesser of the value of the amount stated in the policy or the replacement value of the car (this is my interpretation). Doesn't seem like it is worth insuring for more than the car is worth. I went with Hagerty for the theft coverage on the car because I believe they use "agreed value" which means that once they accept the policy you get the agreed amount in the case of a total loss.

At least this is my understanding.

jlutherva

No, it's not replacement value, it's "Actual Cost Value" which is what you could sell the car for before the accident. That value is easy to derive from sources like Kelley Blue Book, etc. for a relative stock car. It's more difficult for a race car.

The insurance adjustor asked if I had an appraisal. Perhaps that's the solution; be proactive and get an appraisal that the underwriter insurance company is on-board with and go with that amount.

The point is to avoid over insuring the car, waisting $$$ and getting a nasty surprise when it comes time to settle.

More to follow.

Jim

Han Solo

If you have receipts for the modifications you should have a good argument for getting the agreed insured price. Hope they come back and settle to your liking.

Might be time to lawyer up too. It seems a lot of insurance companies want to beat you out of a fair price if they can get away with it. I have had a couple of run ins with companies in the past and both times when I got fed up and told them I was getting an attorney they settled to my liking before I went that far. If you haven't yet signed an agreed settlement then mention you want to get the advice of an attorney and see how they react.

jlutherva

I'm OK for now. Negotiations are now moving along in a friendly environment and at a reasonable pace. The underwriter's adjustor has gone back the person that came up with the ACV and has provided that person with a list of how the car was equipped and also a list of Corvette speed shops and he will be rethinking the ACV.
More to follow.
Jim

Phoenix1911

I'm just curious at what type of rate you guys pay for this type of insurance? Is is flat rate per event?

jlutherva

Both single event and multiple event packages are available. Tracks with higher accident rates have higher insurance rates.

Racingswh

Since you're writing this I assume you're ok which is most important. Sorry for the crash and subsequent loss.

I like the insurance and the $$ safety net it provides. For me the relatively small expense of purchasing HPDE insurance is fairly insignificant compared to a potential total loss of the vehicle. In this particular case once negotiations are final lets say 46-48k imo is much better than 0. I definitely recommend it as I have seen a number of DE incidents in the past 3 years that have resulted in fairly sizeable claims.

Hope it all works out. Thanks for that clarification of the hpde insurance "rules".

TKOGTO

Hey Jim - sorry to hear about the crash and subsequent troubles with Lockton. I need to re-read my policy!
Like you I'm with Lockton after $17.5k fender bender with Ontrackinsurance.
Was there something on the track that caused the accident?

@Phoenix: I paid ~$225/day with Ontrackinsurance with a multiple day discount, insuring the car for $45k. A one day policy @ Lockton cost ~ $290, multiple day discount was ~$260. Same 10% deductible.

Feffman

Jim:

Was the $42,500 before or after the deductible?

Feff

jlutherva

Hi Terry,
The track surface was fine. Something broke. Unfortunately, it broke at 140+ mph. Zip Products is ready to do the failure analysis when we get the car back.

Jim

dvandentop

damn sorry to hear man i know ya had another issue with tire blow out a few years ago that cuased some off track damage too didnt it?

jlutherva

Before... Deductible is $7500.

jlutherva

Hey Derek,
The first wreck was at VIR; I hit some antifreeze that one of our fellow Corvetters dumped all the way from T6 to the South Paddock. He should have pulled off-track at T7. The tire failures occurred in subsequent events following that crash. They were p/o a batch of defective tires that had been recalled by the manufacturer. I had purchased them from a private seller who would have had no knowledge of the recall.

When my wife & I picked up our C6Z at the bodyshop, she made the comment that "This car is too nice to race. If you are going to continue this, you should just buy a race car." Now we all know that she was thinking Miata, but she didn't say that so I bought Aaron Pfadt's silver race car as a roller. She got a bathroom & master bedroom remodeling job.

Zip Products rebuilt the car for me. I was just starting to feel comfortable driving the car and was still only at 70-75% of the car's capability. The car and setup were excellent. It makes me sick to think that it's now just a heap junk sitting at the body shop.

I had knee replacement surgery in late spring and had just started to drive the car again in time for the "Southern Tour" - AMP, Barber and Road Atlanta in 10 days. With a new knee, it's hard to get in and out of a caged car and heel-toe shifting hurts!

So, last day of the Southern Tour, first session, instructor/advanced run group:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--X0T...ature=youtu.be
You may want to skip the first 22 minutes unless just you enjoy uneventful laps around Rd. Atl.
You'll hear a "snap" at about 26.5 minutes. The snap occurs at full throttle. As I come off throttle and roll onto the brakes, the car instantly spins about 210 degrees clockwise and into the Jersey wall.

The initial impact was left rear. I came out of this uninjured due to a Cobra Evolution highly constraining seat, a very tight six-point harness and about two weeks worth of work getting the seat positioned so that my helmet would not have major contact with the cage. I also had a Hans, but I don't think that play into this since the head impact was rear/side.

Thoughts and opinions welcome.


Jim

bags142

I have nothing to say other than glad you are ok. Wow, very scary.