Well, I checked that, more than once . . . .
07-13-2014, 12:40 AM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Well, I checked that, more than once . . . .
Had the C6 Z06 up on the jacks last weekend, checking to see if any issues had popped up as a result of a track day the week before. Leaks, brakes, bearings, ducting. Everything looked cool, but a short drive on surface streets afterwards revealed a clicking sound that seemed to come from the left rear. I was going out of town and didn't have time to check other than to look for a nail or something in the left side tires, and to make sure that no caliper (OEM) bolts had backed out. Everything looked fine for a quick check.
So, today, business duties aside, I get it back out on the road -- curious about the clicking sound previously. At first no clicks, then a bit, then I get it on the freeway -- click, click, click, and some vibration in the steering wheel at 50 MPH. No, this is not good at all. Hit a local vacant parking lot, do some figure eights at slow speed, no noise, no problem. Stop and pull and tug on wheels, look for cracked rotor, try to feel for delaminating tire, nothing. Ease it on back home and pull the jacks out.
Jack up the rear end, go buy a 34mm deep socket (long overdue), and put the torque wrench on the rear axle nuts. Both a little loose (maybe a quarter turn shy of 120 ft lb). Okay, I think I've found it. But during last week's post-track check I only closely examined the right side, not the left, so I let the rear of the car down and jack up the left front. Might have a wheel bearing going down, or a delam in the rubber up there.
The LF wheel clicks when I spin it, and wiggles when I wiggle it. Ah ha, we have a winner. Wheel bearing, I thought. Gotta pull the wheel to make sure. I put the socket on the first lug nut, and it is loose. Hmmm. 2nd lug nut -- loose. 3rd lug nut -- loose. The whole damn wheel was loose, so I torque them all back down and the clicking and wiggle is gone. Test drive, all is cool -- no clicking, no steering wiggle.
Now what's odd is that I'd torqued all the lug nuts before the track day, and I checked the torque once during the track day (they were okay). No problems were noted on the drive home from the track day (several hour drive), and no problems were noted the first dozen or so miles at home after the track day. I guess the moral of the story is to check the lug nut torque at least once a day before driving, even after you get home, if tracking the car.
Better check the rear axle nut torque too (I thot they'd fixed that issue by the time the 2009's came out)>
Local friend of mine (non-racer) made another observation, may have stretched the studs during the latter part of the track event (left front wheel, right turn course), will have to keep a close eye on that particular wheel during the next few weeks of street driving.
So, today, business duties aside, I get it back out on the road -- curious about the clicking sound previously. At first no clicks, then a bit, then I get it on the freeway -- click, click, click, and some vibration in the steering wheel at 50 MPH. No, this is not good at all. Hit a local vacant parking lot, do some figure eights at slow speed, no noise, no problem. Stop and pull and tug on wheels, look for cracked rotor, try to feel for delaminating tire, nothing. Ease it on back home and pull the jacks out.
Jack up the rear end, go buy a 34mm deep socket (long overdue), and put the torque wrench on the rear axle nuts. Both a little loose (maybe a quarter turn shy of 120 ft lb). Okay, I think I've found it. But during last week's post-track check I only closely examined the right side, not the left, so I let the rear of the car down and jack up the left front. Might have a wheel bearing going down, or a delam in the rubber up there.
The LF wheel clicks when I spin it, and wiggles when I wiggle it. Ah ha, we have a winner. Wheel bearing, I thought. Gotta pull the wheel to make sure. I put the socket on the first lug nut, and it is loose. Hmmm. 2nd lug nut -- loose. 3rd lug nut -- loose. The whole damn wheel was loose, so I torque them all back down and the clicking and wiggle is gone. Test drive, all is cool -- no clicking, no steering wiggle.
Now what's odd is that I'd torqued all the lug nuts before the track day, and I checked the torque once during the track day (they were okay). No problems were noted on the drive home from the track day (several hour drive), and no problems were noted the first dozen or so miles at home after the track day. I guess the moral of the story is to check the lug nut torque at least once a day before driving, even after you get home, if tracking the car.
Better check the rear axle nut torque too (I thot they'd fixed that issue by the time the 2009's came out)>
Local friend of mine (non-racer) made another observation, may have stretched the studs during the latter part of the track event (left front wheel, right turn course), will have to keep a close eye on that particular wheel during the next few weeks of street driving.
07-13-2014, 09:14 AM
#4
When on track check the lugnuts before every session then before you go home. street speeds and temps don't effect lugnuts like track conditions. In the old C5 wheel bearings those would survive street fine but die in a bout a month of tracking. Our rotors survived street for years will cracked in 3 trackdays.
07-13-2014, 09:36 AM
#5
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Are you running OEM lugs? The previous owner may have put some crappy aftermarket ones on? And don't torque them when you come in hot off the track, common sense but sometimes forgotten.
You can't 'fix' the axle nut issue without putting new ones on, there is a TSB out there for this, you can find it on this forum. If the dealer gives you a hard time the nuts are cheap, so is the locktite and it takes 24h5mins to do the job yourself, 5 mins to change the nuts and 24hrs to sit as per the TSB
You can't 'fix' the axle nut issue without putting new ones on, there is a TSB out there for this, you can find it on this forum. If the dealer gives you a hard time the nuts are cheap, so is the locktite and it takes 24h5mins to do the job yourself, 5 mins to change the nuts and 24hrs to sit as per the TSB
07-13-2014, 09:39 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
07-13-2014, 10:24 AM
#7
Safety Car
Thread Starter
07-13-2014, 10:34 AM
#8
Burning Brakes
I'd be replacing those studs too like Retopz suggests. They are done now. Also, I torque after every session 100 lbs ft. Any studs/nuts that don't hold torque reliability are replaced.
07-13-2014, 03:19 PM
#9
Race Director
Are you running OEM lugs? The previous owner may have put some crappy aftermarket ones on? And don't torque them when you come in hot off the track, common sense but sometimes forgotten.
You can't 'fix' the axle nut issue without putting new ones on, there is a TSB out there for this, you can find it on this forum. If the dealer gives you a hard time the nuts are cheap, so is the locktite and it takes 24h5mins to do the job yourself, 5 mins to change the nuts and 24hrs to sit as per the TSB
You can't 'fix' the axle nut issue without putting new ones on, there is a TSB out there for this, you can find it on this forum. If the dealer gives you a hard time the nuts are cheap, so is the locktite and it takes 24h5mins to do the job yourself, 5 mins to change the nuts and 24hrs to sit as per the TSB
07-13-2014, 03:24 PM
#10
Safety Car
Thread Starter
The lug nuts are mystery nuts... they're solid steel (not GM) and seem to be okay, but I'll pick up a quality set to again, be on the safe side.
I've always used 100 ft lbs for the torque, as per the service manual.
07-13-2014, 04:26 PM
#11
Safety Car
Are you using wet torques (with lube on the threads)' or dry torques? Lug nuts are one of the few torques that are intended to be dry. If you use any type of lube you will stretch (and potentially break) your studs. Lubricated threads is one of the most common reasons wheels don't hold their torque settings.
07-13-2014, 04:31 PM
#12
Safety Car
07-13-2014, 05:54 PM
#13
Race Director
Relax, dude.
I reread my own post and can't see any reference to stock studs or dry torque values. But feel free to make stuff up. But don't attribute it to me if I didn't say it.
07-13-2014, 06:22 PM
#14
Safety Car
I know that you specifically referenced ARP studs. That is why I clearly said "I don't know about ARP Studs, but this is absolutely incorrect for Stock studs". I was attempting to clarify that if these instructions are followed for stock bolts they will stretch. Most people would assume that if one brand of studs is torqued wet that they should do the same with theirs. This is a very common issue because most quoted torques are wet torques, with wheel studs being one of the few exceptions. I am surprised to hear that ARP recommends a wet torque...
07-13-2014, 06:42 PM
#15
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Member Since: Oct 2000
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Are you using wet torques (with lube on the threads)' or dry torques? Lug nuts are one of the few torques that are intended to be dry. If you use any type of lube you will stretch (and potentially break) your studs. Lubricated threads is one of the most common reasons wheels don't hold their torque settings.
No, never ever lube a wheel stud. ARP, clean, dry and cool when torqued. as far as lubed with ARP ultra - I have never done it, I torque to 100 lbs. with my ARP long studs in SKF bearings and have used the same studs for at least 72 (?) wheel torques over the last few years with never a loose wheel nut, except the one behind the steering wheel.
Last edited by SouthernSon; 07-13-2014 at 06:51 PM.
07-13-2014, 07:33 PM
#16
Safety Car
Thread Starter
To clarify, I only had loose lug nuts on the one wheel -- left front, and practically every damn one (I didn't check all that close when removing them, but the wheel was loose). Could be coincidence, could be a result of that wheel receiving the maximum loading on the track, could be a result of prior abuse on those studs (impact wrench monkeys), but everything was hand torqued the same before and during the event.
I'm going to replace all 5 studs on that hub with Dorman OEM-style replacements (grade 10.9, made in USA). The ARP's which I'm sure most would recommend are longer than stock and probably harder to install... not looking for better than OEM at this point, just the same (I don't think the OEM studs are available as a separate item).
.
Last edited by Mark2009; 07-13-2014 at 07:39 PM.
07-13-2014, 07:55 PM
#17
Safety Car
Dry. I always follow the service manual regarding torque, lubrication, and use of thread locker on stock fasteners (if I were using aftermarket then I'd follow their recommendations).
To clarify, I only had loose lug nuts on the one wheel -- left front, and practically every damn one (I didn't check all that close when removing them, but the wheel was loose). Could be coincidence, could be a result of that wheel receiving the maximum loading on the track, could be a result of prior abuse on those studs (impact wrench monkeys), but everything was hand torqued the same before and during the event.
I'm going to replace all 5 studs on that hub with Dorman OEM-style replacements (grade 10.9, made in USA). The ARP's which I'm sure most would recommend are longer than stock and probably harder to install... not looking for better than OEM at this point, just the same (I don't think the OEM studs are available as a separate item).
.
To clarify, I only had loose lug nuts on the one wheel -- left front, and practically every damn one (I didn't check all that close when removing them, but the wheel was loose). Could be coincidence, could be a result of that wheel receiving the maximum loading on the track, could be a result of prior abuse on those studs (impact wrench monkeys), but everything was hand torqued the same before and during the event.
I'm going to replace all 5 studs on that hub with Dorman OEM-style replacements (grade 10.9, made in USA). The ARP's which I'm sure most would recommend are longer than stock and probably harder to install... not looking for better than OEM at this point, just the same (I don't think the OEM studs are available as a separate item).
.
Charley
07-14-2014, 06:58 AM
#19
Drifting
If you have closed end lug nuts they may be bottoming out on the end of the stud which would give you the impression that they were properly torqued. Otherwise there is no good reason why a lug would loosen by itself.