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Got some updates on the cage. This is just the mock up and tack in. Everything will come out for final preparation. Door bars, A-pillar and gussets are still left. Cage work is being completed by Apex Auto Works of Houston, TX.
The RECARO Seats, E.S.S. Fire Supression, first set of CCW's and steering wheel are all in also.
Last edited by ratt_finkel; 12-27-2014 at 01:51 PM.
One thing you'll want to start thinking a lot about is aero, and ridiculous amounts of it. Look at the car that Loeb and Takajima run up the hill - huge splitters and multi-element wings. At 14,000 feet, there's not much air to make downforce (or power, or cooling) with!
Drop a line to these guys, they even named their business after the Hillclimb you're preparing for - Zebulon MSC: http://www.zebulonmsc.com/
They helped me put my F1000 on the podium at the Runoffs, and won NASA TT3 out west with Chris Mayfield's BMW at Sears. They know the Peak, and they know aero better than anybody I've run into in 10 years of running formula cars and sports racers. Importantly, they understand BIG aero, as they've run Mod cars in Solo for many years.
One thing you'll want to start thinking a lot about is aero, and ridiculous amounts of it. Look at the car that Loeb and Takajima run up the hill - huge splitters and multi-element wings. At 14,000 feet, there's not much air to make downforce (or power, or cooling) with!
Drop a line to these guys, they even named their business after the Hillclimb you're preparing for - Zebulon MSC: http://www.zebulonmsc.com/
They helped me put my F1000 on the podium at the Runoffs, and won NASA TT3 out west with Chris Mayfield's BMW at Sears. They know the Peak, and they know aero better than anybody I've run into in 10 years of running formula cars and sports racers. Importantly, they understand BIG aero, as they've run Mod cars in Solo for many years.
Have fun!
-Jake
Thanks for the referral Jake. I have been in contact with Ryan already. As well as other Aero vendors. I assure you, this car will have serious aero on it.
The extra bends in the top outer bars wouldn't pass NASA tech... not sure about SCCA. Interesting they put the main hoop so far forward vs. going through the rear "wall" to the frame there.
The extra bends in the top outer bars wouldn't pass NASA tech... not sure about SCCA. Interesting they put the main hoop so far forward vs. going through the rear "wall" to the frame there.
Which bars specifically are you talking about? This is a well versed cage builder. I can't imagine him making a cage non-compliant with NASA.
The upper side bars have excess bends where they pass the windshield halo. This is technically non-complaint.
If you are talking about the A-pillar bars that go along the windshield pillar back to the main hoop you are allowed 4 bends - which is exactly what he has - as far as I can see from the pictures.
The forward hoops should extend from the main hoop (in a forward direction) to the floor by following the roof and the “A” pillar of the car. There should be a bar connecting the two (2) forward hoops at the top of the windshield mounted as close to the roof as possible without violating CCR Section #15.6.20 Inspection. The forward hoops should incorporate no more than four bends each. Optionally a “15.6.9 Halo Hoop (Option 2)” or “15.6.10 Front Hoop (Option 3)” construction may also be acceptable.
I do agree that it's better to have the main hoop mounted further back where you can mount it directly on top of the frame rails - and give you as much room as possible for your seat.
I'll just ask that everyone reserve judgement until the final product has been completed. Apex Auto Works has done cage work on everything from Chump Car to World Challenge vehicles. As you know my legacy. They are one of two shops in the country I trust to build the cage properly. And to withstand the rigors and potential pitfalls of Pikes Peak.
I have complete faith in them not only as a project partner, but also as a friend. They take safety VERY seriously.
I'll have a thorough breakdown on the system once it's complete. (Next 1-2 weeks)
Interesting they put the main hoop so far forward vs. going through the rear "wall" to the frame there.
Looks to me like it's directly on the frame. Yes, it could be a couple inches further back, but the seat panels are definitely cut out for cage clearance. The quality of work looks excellent, and as someone else stated, you're allowed 4 bends in the A-pillar bars which it appears there are.
I apologize for spreading bad info then. For some reason I thought it was less bends than that. The cage work does look excellent. Here's how we did mine... out and down along the a-pillar, only 3 bends. Yours is pretty neat... takes the bar way up high, but only doable with the extra bend around the windshield frame. Curious how they'll do a gusset to it as the windshield surround is aluminum and bolted to the steel frame.
Regarding the main hoop.... we pushed mine back as far as possible.
I'll just ask that everyone reserve judgement until the final product has been completed. Apex Auto Works has done cage work on everything from Chump Car to World Challenge vehicles. As you know my legacy. They are one of two shops in the country I trust to build the cage properly. And to withstand the rigors and potential pitfalls of Pikes Peak.
I have complete faith in them not only as a project partner, but also as a friend. They take safety VERY seriously.
I'll have a thorough breakdown on the system once it's complete. (Next 1-2 weeks)
Please don't take it as an attack on the great looking work they are doing on your baby, just sharing opinions.
Now that I look at the photos a little closer, the main hoop is mounted on top of the frame rail similarly to Tool Hoarders cage, it's just that the sheet metal that is usually in place between the fuel tanks and back of the seat is removed for them to do there work. It may be a little farther forward but I would assume that is because they needed room for the X bars in the middle of the main hoop.
While this may be legal for Pikes Peak, most road racing sanctioning bodies require the rear diagonals to go all the way down to the mounting pad. I don't like this setup as it fails by crushing the cross tube too easy.
The rear diagonals and the crossbar are optional so there are no spec's about it (unless I am missing something) - so nobody would raise a stink.
I think GTS or HC has a specific rule prohibiting rear diagonals from terminating on a crossbar.
I think it's worth a read - not only is it a build thread but the car being built crashes hard (page 19) - there are pics of what the cage looks like after the crash (page 25) - and a detailed account of why and where the cage failed (page 38).
I think it's worth a read - not only is it a build thread but the car being built crashes hard (page 19) - there are pics of what the cage looks like after the crash (page 25) - and a detailed account of why and where the cage failed (page 38).
That was my first attempt up Pikes Peak
When I said there are two shops in the country I trust to do the cage right. Apex Auto Works is one. Evolution Dynamics is the other.
Jeremy Foley
Last edited by ratt_finkel; 01-08-2015 at 07:33 PM.
What do the front down bars go to? It looks like they go inside of the frame rails currently to the composite floor? Are they going to cut and move them to go to the top of the frame or make some kind of side weld?
While this may be legal for Pikes Peak, most road racing sanctioning bodies require the rear diagonals to go all the way down to the mounting pad. I don't like this setup as it fails by crushing the cross tube too easy.
I'd personally like to see the two bars cross each other to form a X, and mounted as low as possible (to reduce the chance of bending / sheering forces). This is the strongest structure and would help distribute any point loading better to the mounting points.
I to would have liked to have seen to bars at least intersecting at the same point. Some cages / chassis I have seen have has 5 or more bars intersecting into a single joint from various angles. I always thought this was best practice.
As others have said it's not a go at the guys doing the work, just voicing personal preference.
Last edited by chuntington101; 01-09-2015 at 09:28 AM.
1. Softer suspension than many may think. Given the corners maximum grip on corner exit is more critical than ultimate go-kark handling in the twisty sections. Let it roll a bit, so what.
2. Power should be linear not peaky. Don't care what your peak HP is. That looks impressive on promo materials but reality is the a flat torque curve will win over a peaky car motor. It's not a drag race; 1000hp doesn't mean much.
3. Aero is nice but work the mechanical grip first. The lower section can use some good aero for sure, the middle not so much. The top is the fastest flowing section and large aero there is good mainly due to the altitude issue. But...avoid the giant wing or be prepared to be blown around.
4. Ride height is not likely to be as low as you think. Was the first fully paved year but now with heaves expect some serious bumps and bangs. It ain't a road course! lol
5. The road will be much narrower in spots than you first think come race week. Learn to be a good tactical driver, not a flamboyant one. Or you might gather your share of hay.
6. If you don't know; learn to left foot brake. It's crucial to car balance in the lower section and should aide in a smoother run.
12-27-2014, 01:49 PM
