Mugen1516

Attended my second HPDE event at Hallett Motor Racing Circuit on 10/25/14. It had been a whole year since my last HPDE event. Last year, we ran clockwise and it was wet the first 3 sessions. This time we ran counter-clockwise and it was recently repaved and dry so it felt like a completely different track.

I ran with the stock brake pads this time with a fresh flush of Motul RBF600. I didn't want to run the Raybestos ST43 that I have as they were embarrassingly loud and I wanted to take MY focus off of the noise while driving. I didn't experience any fade or pedal issues with the stock pads as I am probably not fast enough to do so.

The instructor that took me out on my second session was very helpful. He actually drove my car pretty hard or what I felt like was pretty hard. He showed me the line and gave me all the marks I was supposed to aim for. The big thing I took away this time was when to add throttle in reference to the turn. My first time last year, I was so hesitant to add throttle any earlier than after completely straightening out after the turns as I was scared of spinning because of the wet conditions and not being really experienced with driving RWD on the track. This time I was adding throttle midway through the turns and the car actually felt like it was "sitting into the turn" and gripping more.

I left it in 3rd gear most of the time to focus on the line. I tried a couple of times to complete a downshift, but I upset the car because I wasn't smooth so I decided to stop.

Feel free to critique my driving and provide any tips or suggestions. This is only my second time doing an HPDE event and my first time running Hallett counter-clockwise. My best lap was a 1:36.224. I had a blast and can't wait for the next season to start!

'10 Corvette Grand Sport Coupe 6-Speed Manual

Modifications:
-Halltech Super Bee MF105S Ram Air Induction
-American Racing Header 1-3/4" x 3" X-Pipe 3" x 2-1/2" No/Cats
-MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor Spark Plug Wire Set
-Dual Mode Exhaust (NPP)
-Diablosport InTune with Custom Tune from Diablew

I have since added some LG Motorsports G2 Coilovers so it'll be fun to see how that changes things.

My wife riding shotgun (Rest of pics here):

Dan H.

Guy in the grey Volvo seems to have a broken arm........

Bill Dearborn

I only looked at your session 5 video. If I had been your instructor I would have had you running in 4th. You could have been getting on the throttle sooner and harder and it would have been easier to control the car in the corners since the on and off throttle torque reaction would have been tamer. I didn't hear you hit the rev limiter in 3rd so I assume your top speed was less than 100 mph (rev limited speed would have been around 103).

First time I have seen that course so I don't know the particulars of the track but your line looked pretty good. I am sort of surprised you didn't have an instructor riding with you since this was only your second event with a year's time between the two.

Bill

Mugen1516

Yeah, it was definitely frustrating. I tried to take the polite route and gave him multiple chances to give me a wave by. I finally ended up just saying screw it.

So the idea of being in 4th is so that I could feel what it was like to get on the throttle even sooner and learn some car control? I feel like 4th would have definitely bogged down for two of the corners as the car was already digging from the low end in 3rd. If being in 4th teaches me something, I will certainly keep that in mind for next time.

On the longest straight, I was just right at the rev limiter in 3rd before letting off. I think Harry's Lap Timer said I was hitting 103 or 104 mph.

I had an instructor with me on session 2 and then I tried to hone in on what he had said on my own for the rest of the day and so that other people could take on instructors.

Bill Dearborn

I couldn't really tell how slow you were going in the various turns and the track certainly looks tighter than the Glen but not some of the corners at VIR. I drive those tracks in 3rd and 4th gear but can drive them all the way in 4th without losing all that much speed. There are several turns at VIR where the speed is in the low to mid 40s. For instance coming off from Oak Tree at VIR I can use 2nd, 3rd or 4th. If I use 2nd and rev through the gears I will hit close to 160 at the end of the straight, if I use 3rd the speed will drop a couple of mph, if I use 4th the speed drops another couple mph. The reason 4th doesn't hurt that much is because I can go wide open quite a few feet sooner.


In 4th you can get better control in a higher gear since you aren't upsetting the car as much when you get on or off the throttle. Most instructors will spend a fair amount of time with students driving High HP cars just getting them to be smooth on the throttle. Sometimes there isn't all that much difference in the HP being produced going around a corner. You can go around it in 3rd at a higher rpm at part throttle producing X HP or in 4th at a lower rpm at WOT producing the same X HP. The difference is in how much smoother the on and off throttle transistions are. C5 and C6 Vettes running a stock suspension and alignment have a tendency toward trailing throttle oversteer. The lower the gear you are in the more trailing throttle braking, nose dive and oversteer you get when you take your foot off the gas. Once you get used to it you can use that to help get the car around a corner.


Bill

jbondfl

Smoother is faster. I'm with Bill, stay in fourth. If you give up 1-2 seconds on the corner you have to "dig" out of you'll gain it back on all the others where you can roll into the throttle sooner without worrying about oversteer.

Mugen1516

Thank you for that response. Very helpful and makes a lot of sense. I have noticed some upsetting of the car when coming off throttle too abruptly a few times. I will give it a try next time.

jaa1992

I agree - when I'm instructing a newbie with a high HP car I get them to keep it in 4th until they can drive the line by muscle memory. Sometime in day 2 I'll add a downshift before the slow corners.

You have enough torque in these cars, and learning the line is the first thing - I want to go home in one piece and I'm pretty sure the student wants to be able to drive their car home

JerryTX

As you get faster you will appreciate the extra bite and lack of fade that race pads provide. The sound they make goes away on track with lots of hard use.. in the pits just be proud of the sound and tell yourself what we all do on this forum.. "Because... RACECAR"! Your GS has the same gears as my C6, 3:42. There are (edit) 2 corners I can get down to 2nd, most of the track is done in 3rd with only 2 shifts to 4th or you can rev the snot out of it on the 2nd straight and keep it in 3rd.

I think like the others said you need more instruction: shuffle steering: gotta stop! An instructor will help you build confidence; you are lifting early and braking early. The fact that your passenger's head isn't getting thrown forward HARD on the 2 straights, and the fact you aren't fading the stock pads in < 6 laps is further evidence. I'm not suggesting you go out and do this solo. You are doing great for only your second HPDE, it takes time, go out and continue to do it, and get as many people as possible to right in the right seat so you can learn. ASK faster guys if you can ride in their right seat as often as possible too. I ask around to find out who is really fast AND safe and then ask them politely if I can ride shotgun and learn. I learn every time I ride in either seat.

My race from last year. First part of the race was a little of a defensive line as I was in a battle for P1. Later in the race was a defensive battle again to hold onto P1 and to pay attention to my roof panel and try to prevent it from flying off. I lost P1 but kept the roof.

wtb-z

If Mero gets to do it I think everyone else can do it too: http://bit.ly/1vwnH4U

Bill Dearborn

Not sure what you were implying. He definitely wasn't shuffle steering in the video. His hands were at the 10 and 2 positions on the wheel since 9 and 3 don't work out well with the spokes right there.


Bill

JerryTX

LOL, agreed, if you are Mero keep doing it. If you are a newb, break the habit now.

JerryTX

Not BAD shuffle steering but look at around 4:40 in the vid.

Bill Dearborn

Each of the commenters have brought different points forward. When you put it all together it is a lot of info to absorb and is one of the problems novices have in their first track days. On top of that there is still a lot of stuff still not mentioned. It takes a lot of seat time to get it all down as you can only learn so much at one time.


Keep at it and you will get better. Much better. Try and do at least 5 or 6 track days per year to keep the skills you pick up along the way. Doing it once per year makes it hard to retain skills you spent a lot of money learning.


Bill

Bill Dearborn

Yes, I see it now. However, if he didn't do it there he would have had his arms crossed too much. That is a fairly tight corner that requires a fair amount of steering input and as you get to that angle it may be a lot easier to move the hands to apply the appropriate amount of force and also keep the arms from being crossed.


There are always exceptions to the rules.


Bill

Mugen1516

Thanks for all the input guys. Much appreciated. Shuffle steering bad. Got it. 10 and 2? And move seat forward if needed?

I have heard the saying don't brake until you see God haha. I'll have to work on that too. Tough to balance braking later and harder all the while being smooth.

I'm definitely enjoying the learning process.

tytek

I subscribe to this one: don't brake and you will see God

Mugen1516

I realize your car is fully race prepped vs me being a newb with a street car but your video helps a lot with watching the steering input. On the downshifts, it's difficult to tell but what is the sequence of events taking place? Are you doing a heel-toe down shifting all together or are you breathing the throttle, blipping throttle and completing downshift, and braking? I'm trying to figure out when the braking occurs in relation to the downshifts in your video.

Thanks for posting it!

Bill Dearborn

I heel toe downshift under braking so the car is ready to accelerate when it is time to go from the brake to the throttle. I suspect he is doing the same. It is a given with the heel/toe statement that you are downshifting and getting the car back into gear while braking.


Bill

JerryTX

You can find some great YT vids of how to do it, "Heel and Toe" is a total misnomer, its more like ball and side, as in the ball of the foot is on the brake while simultaneously mashing the side of your foot into the throttle to blip it. Braking starts the sequence, and the downshifts occur while slowing the car. My car has a 12lb clutch and flywheel so your car will sound distinctly different as it won't rev and fall as quick, but with timing you make it work. Know that it is almost impossible to practice heel and toe on the street, you will look like a hooligan and get arrested.