JLZ06TR

Hey guys. I was at an autox event last week and I thought I would share the video with you guys. The car is a 2002 Z06 running C6 Z06 wheels with cooper Zeon rs3-S tires. tire sizes are 275/35/18 front and 325/30/19 rear. The car has heads and cam and bolt ons as well, but this doesnt help much in this environment. The suspension is stock, but was lowered by previous owner on the front almost all the way, so the rake is very aggressive, which i think led to some understeering situations (i.e cone murder) The car also needs brakes, which is my next project, since this little course was enough to boil my fluid. Im pretty sure the fluid it has is same as factory. I will be doing stainless steel brake lines along with the flush using Motul RBF600. Keeping brake pads mild for now with some stoptechs.

If you have any advice let me know. I would appreciate it. if anything just watch and enjoy!

froggy47

On a totaly wide open course like that one, there is no reason at all to be moving your hands around the steering wheel & regripping, please work on that.

Look up some threads by mountainbiker autox and watch his hands.

I did not see any heavy braking required that would push even the cheapest dot 3 to the limit. If you saw brake fluid "leaking" around the master, that's just "seepage" and common with the cheap GM master cylinder cap.

Looks like you had a blast, that's GREAT!

JLZ06TR

Thanks for the reply. Also thanks for all your videos, I've been following you with those for a while. I havent noticed if the brake master is leaking, but I am pretty sure that the fluid in the car is the same from factory, all the way since 2002. The car also sat for a long time while i was doing the head/cam swap, so i think that may have led to the fluid being compromised even worse.

I will be following your video on doing the flush however. Ill make sure to buy alot more Motul RBF 600 because i have a feeling that it will take more fluid that what you used to get my system cleaned lol.

froggy47

Nothing wrong with the Motul, but the price. You would be fine with any dot4 (like wilwood 570 - what I use) & yes if it's that old change it.

l98tpi

with the Frog on the hands and try to relax a little. Looks like a death grip on the wheel. You did however seem to run the course smoothely, which is what you want. Just keep getting more seat time.

JLZ06TR

lol yeah definitely had a death grip going on. the stock seats dont hold me in place so i find myself using the steering wheel to hold myself up, and as you can see im a pretty big guy. Ive been looking at aftermarket seats, and am partial to the corbeau A4, but I am not sure what size i should get it. I want to sit in one before I make the purchase.

Definitely will have more seat time.

ratt_finkel

Agreed. Something about your hands and arms just looks awkward. You don't look comfortable at all. You might be a little too far back from the wheel.

But overall you looked very smooth. There are a couple spots where you were a little abrupt in throttle input. And a couple spots where you should have been hard on the gas, but were mostly constant throttle. But I expected way more shenanigans. So nicely done!

Just remember, there are few opportunities where you can go WOT. Make sure you utilize every inch and tenth of a second you can. While corvettes handle well. They are not momentum cars. So you really have to maximize the acceleration zones.

Also, always try to make sure you are smooth in your throttle inputs. You want to add throttle in a smooth and consistent manner. We call it patience. Wait until the rear end is set and slowly start feeding the gas in until you are at WOT.

This will minimize the rear end stepping out on you, and minimize the corrections you will need to make with the steering wheel.

As you get better and gain more confidence, you will be adding in the throttle sooner and sooner. And rolling on to it more aggressively. But for now, just keep on focusing on being smooth. Hanging out the tail and sliding the car around may look cool. But it's not the fast way (yet).

Oh, I have to say that was a very fast course too. Many lots are significantly smaller than that depending on the region. Just remember, there are going to be many times where you will only hit WOT at one spot on a course. And it could be for a split second. You'd be surprised how many times you are only hitting %75. I'll see if I can dig up some vids showing hand movement.

Sam Strano has some good vids out there. And he has more championships than I do

Jeremy Foley

strano@stranoparts.com

LOL Jeremy. I've seen you run plenty enough to know that your advice is sound.

This is not nearly all the videos that are out there but a lot of Corvette stuff (and some other things showing I'm not a one trick pony) can be found here: http://www.stranoparts.com/videos.php If you get really bored you can hop on YouTube and type in my name and a bunch more will arrive shortly from track days to autocrossing, Scion FR-S to C5 and C6Z06's, Grand Sports, Mustangs, etc.

There are lots of secrets, and a death grip is not uncommon. Part of it is experience, part of it is trying to force the car to do things rather than "asking it nicely". Part of it is the crappy seats. If you know how to ratchet the lap belt that's a start, but a real racing lap belt is better, and if legal in the class you compete a real seat is best.

Apocolipse

Sitting too far back, for sure.

VetteDrmr

On the brake fluid, if you boiled the fluid (brake pedal got soft or went to the floor) it wouldn't be because of the course. Could be:

1. water-saturated fluid (my first guess, since you didn't mention any previous flush or bleed)
2. holding your foot on the brake while parked between runs. That'll put a lot of heat into the pads/calipers/fluid, plus not do your rotors any good.

For autocross I've used Valvoline Synpower DOT 3/4 for years without brake fluid boiling, autox courses just don't put enough heat into the brakes. You can get it anywhere and it's inexpensive. But, it's FRESH. Flush your brakes once a year, bleed them before every event.

Finally, stay away (at least for now) on the SS brake lines. I've not met anyone that changed out OE lines for SS and had any kind of measurable difference. Feel, maybe, but that's very subjective. But actual better braking? Not in my experience.

HTH, and have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Mike

strano@stranoparts.com

Definitely sit closer so you don't have your arms straight out, you will have better command of the car.

Get into 2nd gear as fast you can. You have PLENTY of torque, and it's harder to drive in 1st, plus is more distracting when you have to think about when to shift.

As for the brakes. No way you faded the brakes. I suspect maybe you had some ABS intervention that caused the pedal to move. OR you have a failing master cylinder (not uncommon in GM stuff). The course wasn't long enough, and you weren't on the brakes nearly hard enough to have faded the fluid even if it's crappy fluid (and it probably is and needs changed, you should change it anyway for that reason). But again, no way you had fluid fade, or even pad fade on runs like that.

JLZ06TR

Thanks for all the advice so far, its good stuff.

I have a few questions though, what rotor should I be running? I know i shouldn't get cross drilled, but what about solid vs slotted. Ive been looking at the Centric High Carbon alloy rotors that can be found in rock auto pretty cheap. Also is there any particular reason not to go with the stainless steel lines? just wondering because I have them already bought. Im also go with stoptech pads for now and will see how that goes.

Also, which reclining seat would you guys recommend other than the Corbeau A4?

Thanks again for the advice. Hope you all had a nice thanksgiving.

JLZ06TR

Ive been advised in the past to start out in second gear on autox. I can see how you might loose some time in the launch but u might gain it in not needing to shift. I didnt try it, but would you recommend this?

strano@stranoparts.com

Again, I think maybe you are thinking a bit too hard on the brakes here. But if you are going to do brakes anyway (needs them, or you just want better) then you should worry less about blingy rotors and more on killer pads, better than Stoptech. It's about how you spend your money.

This is hard to explain without being able to talk to you, but I'll try.

Rotors do not give you power, they are acted on by the pads. Pads and fluid and tires are what stop the car. I have really nice replacement rotors, vaned properly but nothing fancy to look at (and not cheap castings like more parts store junk) for under $200 for the set of 4. If you get those you can then put your money into a much better set of pads that give you more bite, more feel, more fade resistance, etc.

Slotted.. it's ok, but adds cost for no more power. A little better for cutting down on grooving of the disc in track or high dust situations. Again, I carry lots of rotors including many slotted ones, but I still think based on what I've seen here you are headed the wrong way.

Stainless lines. If you need lines, absolutely. If your lines are in fine shape, I'd not have that as a priority. But doing them at the same time you do a fluid flush makes sense.

Priorities in terms of better brake performance:

Pads
Fluid

Secondary things that don't hurt and you might consider for various reasons:

Different rotors
Stainless lines

Honestly if you have questions, feel free to call me at the number in my sig. A real conversation makes a lot more sense than the internet. There is so much misunderstood and bad info across the web it's almost silly.

justkickin

I would not recommend that, not even on streets. I was forced to do it a few times 2 seasons ago due to a bad synchro and it easily cost a second or more. Granted, we usually have two tight pivots as well.

froggy47

Bad advice, get a GOOD instructor.

strano@stranoparts.com

I would not recommend starting in 2nd. I can be done but frankly it's not worth the thinking it takes to not smoke the clutch and all. Start in 1st, but get into 2nd as fast as you can/at the best possible (read: easiest) place you can.

JLZ06TR

Which pads would you guys recommend?

strano@stranoparts.com

Oh boy. Might as well ask Coke or Pepsi or Blonde vs. Brunette vs. Redhead, etc.

You won't get a consensus. Depends on what you want and are willing to live with. I strongly feel the best all around pad for the car are Ferodo DS2500's. I run them myself on my C5. I would on the C6 but they don't make them for the bigger brakes on that car. I've tried many and DS2500's are my choice.

If I didn't tell some normal joe they weren't performance pads he'd never know. They aren't stupid grabby at low speed, they aren't filthy (some dust sure but not lots of black), they word cold, they don't tear up rotors. They just work. And when you use them, they have excellent power and modulation and take a lot of heat too, enough it's the only one I truly consider at all all dual purpose as in actually able to live and work on both the street and the track (within reason, they are not all out race pads).

Front:http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...=32&ModelID=11

Rear: http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=32&PartID=85


There are other options, many cheaper. I have lots of those too (more than you see on my website in fact). But Stoptech's aren't all that good, in fact I had a guy yesterday who had both on his Mustang Brembo's and called back and was raving about the difference to the DS2500's (Raving in a good way). I have all the Hawk line, and others.

Again, for my money... and I mean this as I spend my own money on this stuff too, the Ferodo's are my choice.

justkickin

I may have to try those Ferodo's next time. One of the fast S2K guys up here likes them as well. I will admit though, I do like the HP+'s, especially when warm.

Do you sell in sets that would have less bite in the rear? I find with HP+'s all around, bumps will trigger ice mode (not fun when approaching a tire barrier at the end of a runway).

Sam, ever use the Ferodo's for lapping? The HP+'s do not fade on me after 5-6 laps (Time Attack) like others have.