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I have the Wilwood 14 in BBK on my 2002 Z06. I cooked the BP-20 pads during a time trial. I am switching to Carbotech pads. The pad makers say to turn the rotors to clean them up and remove the overheated pad material. Willwood says that they can not be turned. It is 500 to replace the front rings. Has anyone turned the Willwood rotor rings, if so how , should I take them to a automotive machine shop, or can they be done on a regular brake lathe?
Wilwood said don't turn them. What more info do you need. At best clean off the rotors with 80 grit sandpaper. Rotors use their "mass" to dissipate the heat. When you turn them they lose necessary " mass" ( weight ) and become less able to dissipate the heat at the same rate as a new or unturned rotor.
If you want to race or track the car, rotors are considered expendables and you should time them out.
This is why people say racing is expensive, how fast do you want to go.
Rotors are less expensive than a brake failure crash.
I have the Wilwood 14 in BBK on my 2002 Z06. I cooked the BP-20 pads during a time trial. I am switching to Carbotech pads. The pad makers say to turn the rotors to clean them up and remove the overheated pad material. Willwood says that they can not be turned. It is 500 to replace the front rings. Has anyone turned the Willwood rotor rings, if so how , should I take them to a automotive machine shop, or can they be done on a regular brake lathe?
BP-20's on track?!? That should be a $500 lesson in what not to do from here on out.
BP20s are a NOT race or track pad. They are 'spirited street pads' a step up from BP10- similar to that of Hawk HPS to Hawk HP+ would be. That's why they are supplied as the base pad in the kit. It's up to the end user to find suitable track pads for such use.
Any type of open track use for more than a lap or two would require proper pads such as Poly B or Poly H use depending upon the tire. There's a reason you read bout "race pads"....which then have no use on the street. This is the case of not a pad problem but an application problem.
Your $500 price is about right. And that's assuming you re-use the hardware, which they will also tell you not to do.
I won't say to or not to turn them but many shops simply will not due to the slots. It's very hard on the tips. If they do so they'll need to make passes at a low cut of .002 or so or the chatter will be terrible and the rotor made worse. That's one of the reasons they'd say not to. Surface grinding can be done also if they were to be removed from the hats.
I also won't arm twist you to keep Wilwood pads that's up to you. But we have a wide assortment of very well proven compounds to use. You won't find another brand that will adequately serve both needs either so please look to buy two sets regardless of brand.
BP20s are a NOT race or track pad. They are 'spirited street pads' a step up from BP10- similar to that of Hawk HPS to Hawk HP+ would be. That's why they are supplied as the base pad in the kit. It's up to the end user to find suitable track pads for such use.
Any type of open track use for more than a lap or two would require proper pads such as Poly B or Poly H use depending upon the tire. There's a reason you read bout "race pads"....which then have no use on the street. This is the case of not a pad problem but an application problem.
Your $500 price is about right. And that's assuming you re-use the hardware, which they will also tell you not to do.
I won't say to or not to turn them but many shops simply will not due to the slots. It's very hard on the tips. If they do so they'll need to make passes at a low cut of .002 or so or the chatter will be terrible and the rotor made worse. That's one of the reasons they'd say not to. Surface grinding can be done also if they were to be removed from the hats.
I also won't arm twist you to keep Wilwood pads that's up to you. But we have a wide assortment of very well proven compounds to use. You won't find another brand that will adequately serve both needs either so please look to buy two sets regardless of brand.
If you need some helps on the rotors let me know.
Jut a mindless thought. But can you unbolt the hubs(if you do this use heat on the bolts or you'll risk pulling threads out as they are red Loctite'd) and take them to a machine shop and have them surfaced on a machine like this?
The only way I'd do grinding is on a blanchard grinder like those used on big rig rotors or flywheels. And by a very reputable shop. The key is parallelism here. On the Wilwood rotor you'll see the hat is set into the rotor face by about .010" (I'll confess I'm not clear on why that is) so you'd have to do one side then the other relative to THAT surface. If not...you would have parallel surfaces and possibly a mount surface that's out of whack by .005 or more.
Given the diameter here on a 14" rotor also I'd be very concerned about deflection across the surface on such a small table as shown above. You'd have to rotate it a couple of times. Probably not a good idea. I've had some stuff done here in Phoenix that as done like this but on a huge grinder...they came out ok (I guess, no complaints..) by the cost was nuts.
Taking out the old bolts is a pain...I'd expect to heat them with a torch before I pulled them. The reason red loctite is optional is that by safety wiring the bolts you'd not have this bond and removal would be far easier. The ss bolts are (in my mind) a torque to yield situation and re using them rather questionable.
Here's the new race rotor I've been working on. lol
Getting the hats off is what I am afraid of. I would have ordered the rings already, I have the luck that I would break off the bolts in the hats and be truly screwed
I had someone do it without issue on a project I had made a mistake on, they got it off without issue. I'd certainly consider some heat from a propane torch if you have one. Being careful not to over heat the alum however.
On my street car (Chevy SS) it had Brembo pads that made tons of dust - I wanted to switch to Hawk ceramic pads because they dust much less. - I can't believe I sound like a waxer
But I knew the Brembo pads weren't going to jive with the Hawk ceramics so what I did was trim the side edges on the old brake pads with a grinder, then wrap the pads in 220 grit sand paper. Put everything back together and let the caliper act as it's own lathe.
I drove slowly back and forth while applying light brake pedal pressure - it did a great job cleaning the rotors and I had no issues bedding in the new pads.
It might work for you might not but all you're out is some sandpaper if it doesn't.
BP20s are a NOT race or track pad. They are 'spirited street pads' a step up from BP10- similar to that of Hawk HPS to Hawk HP+ would be. That's why they are supplied as the base pad in the kit. It's up to the end user to find suitable track pads for such use.
Any type of open track use for more than a lap or two would require proper pads such as Poly B or Poly H use depending upon the tire. There's a reason you read bout "race pads"....which then have no use on the street. This is the case of not a pad problem but an application problem.
Your $500 price is about right. And that's assuming you re-use the hardware, which they will also tell you not to do.
I won't say to or not to turn them but many shops simply will not due to the slots. It's very hard on the tips. If they do so they'll need to make passes at a low cut of .002 or so or the chatter will be terrible and the rotor made worse. That's one of the reasons they'd say not to. Surface grinding can be done also if they were to be removed from the hats.
Todd rather than turn, wouldn't going to a more aggressive pad wipe old material off the rotors?
I also won't arm twist you to keep Wilwood pads that's up to you. But we have a wide assortment of very well proven compounds to use. You won't find another brand that will adequately serve both needs either so please look to buy two sets regardless of brand.
If you need some helps on the rotors let me know.
Hey, Todd
Good information. It's all about being honest about how you are using your car. There is No pad that can be used on street AND track. Autocross, sure.
Todd is a big help with other makes, too.
Todd
Rather than turn, wouldn't. Switching to a more aggressive pad wipe old pad material off?
Last edited by RHEACERDAVE; 06-28-2016 at 07:56 PM.
It's possible that the rotors could be "cleaned" with something like Poly A compound. I've done it couple times on some street material with ok results. Took some time to get things fully happy again. On the other hand I don't know the extent of the damage here so taking his money on a set of A pads on a promise is just not what I'd offer. Too much risk there.
I like the idea of cleaning them with some emery paper over "sand paper" which is often aluminum oxide and if overheated could only smear more. Another option might be some gray scotchbrite pad. Green maybe, red too fine. Light pedal pressure a few times around the block if you can keep it in place. Didn't some late night tv hacker push some sanding block deal years ago??
In the end it may all prove a costly exercise in the learning curve. I hope you can salvage them but it's going to take some risk to try ideas with no guarantees.
It's possible that the rotors could be "cleaned" with something like Poly A compound. I've done it couple times on some street material with ok results. Took some time to get things fully happy again. On the other hand I don't know the extent of the damage here so taking his money on a set of A pads on a promise is just not what I'd offer. Too much risk there.
I like the idea of cleaning them with some emery paper over "sand paper" which is often aluminum oxide and if overheated could only smear more. Another option might be some gray scotchbrite pad. Green maybe, red too fine. Light pedal pressure a few times around the block if you can keep it in place. Didn't some late night tv hacker push some sanding block deal years ago??
In the end it may all prove a costly exercise in the learning curve. I hope you can salvage them but it's going to take some risk to try ideas with no guarantees.
I've done this with success, the more I drove the car the better the shudder got. I think the info is in the link I posted prior.
Put and aggressive race pad on the car and street drive it for a while, gotta have your ears on though.
Do you have the SL6 based 14 inch kit with the 7416 or 7420 pad? I don't know if you can get Hawk Blue pads in the Wilwood Pad shape but if you can they will solve your problem. They are terribly abusive to rotors when cold. They grind them right down. Install the pads and go for a 20 mile round trip in suburban driving. When you get back you will have to clean the wheels to keep them from rusting due to all of the rotor dust deposited on them. The rotors should be fairly clean as well since the pads will definitely grind them down. If the Blue's aren't available there may be a similar product from another manufacturer that will be as abrasive.
3M abrasive ('scotchloc') disc on a die grinder? Abrasive, but supposedly don't remove steel or iron. (Hmmm... wonder where are all those sparks from?)
Anyway, that's what I'm going to try to clean pad deposit off from my discs before I throw them away...
And btw, BP 20s work great on the rear of my M3. BP30s don't reach temp...
You don't need to turn them. Use a drill (wired/120v for high speed) with the correct softness wired wheel, abrillo(sp) pad on a bit or sanding wheel on a bit to take off the brake pad compound. Don't breath the dust while doing the work. Just take your time and get the rotor surfaces clean again.
This technique removes the old compound which was the point in turning the rotor. Its a lot easier to put the rotors on a lathe to clean them than it is to clean the rotors by hand with a drill, but the cost is losing rotor material and it sounds like the rotors you have aren't designed to be turned.
Then put the new pads on and bed them per destructions.
For the last 10 years I have only used Hawk DTC70/60s or Raybestos ST47/45s so my experience with Carbotech is limited to some use around 2004/2005.
I could be wrong, but it seems to me for track used within the first couple corners of threshold breaking any micro thin layer of the old pad material is going to be scrubbed and burned off the rotors.
I have heard of this issue with compound changes, but isn't that limited mainly to street use applications where the rotors don't get very hot and pad material accumulates on the rotor?
Has anyone actually had a problem with pad material build-up on the rotor? I have not.
I changed from DTC70 to ST43 and that one brake howled for a couple sessions. Pedal was fine. I've heard of people using Hawk blues to scrub rotors clean.
06-27-2016, 01:47 PM
Wilwood rotors, can you turn them?
