NCM Motorsports Park Lawsuit Agreement Verdict
03-04-2017, 02:27 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
NCM Motorsports Park Lawsuit Agreement Verdict
Perhaps we should get mad at highway and municipal road noise too. Then we could change that...and planes that fly near airports.
Here is the article on the outcome.
http://www.wbko.com/content/news/Nat...415291233.html
Here is the article on the outcome.
http://www.wbko.com/content/news/Nat...415291233.html
Last edited by Movie Muscle; 03-05-2017 at 03:16 AM.
03-04-2017, 06:38 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
So which was built first...track or homes? The track is only about 4 years old.
This reminds me of Naples and the fight over their municipal airport. The super expensive area of Naples ($10-60 mil homes) is on the water and sits below a flight path of the airport. And the people who occasionally live in these 'seasonal' homes tend to fly into the airport on their private jets. Very convenient. However these same people complain their neighbors' jets and the flight paths are too loud when they are in their homes.
Life is so hard sometimes.
This reminds me of Naples and the fight over their municipal airport. The super expensive area of Naples ($10-60 mil homes) is on the water and sits below a flight path of the airport. And the people who occasionally live in these 'seasonal' homes tend to fly into the airport on their private jets. Very convenient. However these same people complain their neighbors' jets and the flight paths are too loud when they are in their homes.
Life is so hard sometimes.
Last edited by spearfish25; 03-04-2017 at 06:43 AM.
03-04-2017, 08:37 AM
#3
Race Director
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Deal's Gap 2004 NCM Motorsports track supporter
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That should sufficiently put to rest any future problems. The track is a fantastic road course. Over the last 12 years I have been on tracks from Sebring and Daytona to Joliet's Autobahn, from Mid Ohio to Robling Road, NCCAR to Firebird Raceway in Az. and most tracks in between. I have come to love the NCM MSP as one of, if not, the best of the bunch! Can't wait to get back there! 
03-04-2017, 10:32 AM
#4
Race Director
It is a FANTASTIC track!!! I've been to several events there, including the inaugural HPDE Sept 26-29, 2014.
As I recall, the original plans submitted by the NCM and approved by the city planning commission included some noise barriers (a large berm, and I believe some walls) that for some reason weren't built at the same time as the track was. That resulted in more noise for the neighborhood that was already there than the NCM had said they would experience. I've seen more noise barriers each time I go up there, so progress is being made.
So....in the case of the NCM Motorsports Park, the houses were definitely there first.
.
03-04-2017, 12:03 PM
#5
Team Owner
Well this is fun reading. Once there was a racetrack. Then people built houses near it. then they complained about noise from the racetrack. You're a special kind of stupid aren't you? Perhaps we should get mad at highway and municipal road noise too. Then we could change that...and planes that fly near airports.
Here is the article on the outcome.
http://www.wbko.com/content/news/Nat...415291233.html
Here is the article on the outcome.
http://www.wbko.com/content/news/Nat...415291233.html
Get the facts straight or don't post about it.
03-05-2017, 05:38 AM
#6
Drifting
Is there a new noise level for NCM MSP????? I believe it was 103 dBA, and last year they were measuring on the straight away following T4 at the beginning of the back straightaway.
I'm running straight pipes with two small straight thru mufflers and headers so normally, my car is quite loud. For NCM, I add diffusers and turn-downs and last year I had no problems meeting those requirements.
I'm signed up for the Chin Track Days event April 1-2. Hopefully my new motor isn't any louder and the requirements have not changed.
Jim
I'm running straight pipes with two small straight thru mufflers and headers so normally, my car is quite loud. For NCM, I add diffusers and turn-downs and last year I had no problems meeting those requirements.
I'm signed up for the Chin Track Days event April 1-2. Hopefully my new motor isn't any louder and the requirements have not changed.
Jim
03-05-2017, 10:53 AM
#7
Team Owner
Hello Vette D, I see you're the moderator in this area of the forum. I both read and watched the video at no point did it say which came first. The facts are in the link, my comments were just that. My original post has been edited to reflect accuracy. I am many miles away on the other side of the boarder and had been out of the vette scene for a long time. So I was unaware of the tracks build date and made an assumption. As I'm sure the members with the knowledge of the track build date etc figured. Interesting that you chose to shoot back in the manner you did with CAPS/yelling. ..Next time at 3:00 I will fully research everything before posting a useful link so that my comments reflect more accuracy. Or I just won't take the time to pass on info people might like to see. Enjoy the road and play safe.
People like to see the true facts posted.
Last edited by Vette_DD; 03-05-2017 at 12:35 PM.
03-05-2017, 11:08 AM
#8
Race Director
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Deal's Gap 2004 NCM Motorsports track supporter
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Enough wrong information has been posted by a few over the last couple of years. The track is a great asset to the community, the corvette fans and racers alike. I don't know if mistakes were made by the track developers and, if they were, if they were intentional. Since it would appear that all issues are now resolved perhaps we can consider any further criticism as simply moot. Let's all go burn through some brake pads!
03-05-2017, 04:29 PM
#9
Drifting
Actually the issues are not resolved - wait and see. The "facts" are that the NCM and it's so called leader reneged several times on the noise level and tried to jam it up the neighborhoods ****. So mush so that the NCM refused to cancel events and told the residents tough chit ... sue me. Well it happened and as I see it, great track or crap track, the NCM got off lucky. The quality of the track is irrelevant.
The NCM folks made multiple promises in planning and construction to get permitting and, in my opinion, they knew with certainty that the noise abatement would be an issue and has no intent to follow it as promised. That backfired. The walls and berms came after they got shut down the first time and the neighborhood did not back down.
There are several on here that carry the water for the NCM and their interest is selfish and self serving. Like the dog that craps in your driveway, not there own and moves on. Folks go to the track, have fun and go home. This neighborhood has to live with this daily and they have a substantial investment ... not just a fund day out. Extend the consideration to them you expect and demand at your own home.
The NCM had counterfeit intentions regarding noise.
My opinion and worth the price paid for it.
The NCM folks made multiple promises in planning and construction to get permitting and, in my opinion, they knew with certainty that the noise abatement would be an issue and has no intent to follow it as promised. That backfired. The walls and berms came after they got shut down the first time and the neighborhood did not back down.
There are several on here that carry the water for the NCM and their interest is selfish and self serving. Like the dog that craps in your driveway, not there own and moves on. Folks go to the track, have fun and go home. This neighborhood has to live with this daily and they have a substantial investment ... not just a fund day out. Extend the consideration to them you expect and demand at your own home.
The NCM had counterfeit intentions regarding noise.
My opinion and worth the price paid for it.
03-06-2017, 02:33 PM
#10
Race Director
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Deal's Gap 2004 NCM Motorsports track supporter
Posts: 13,927
Received 1,106 Likes
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720 Posts
Actually the issues are not resolved - wait and see. The "facts" are that the NCM and it's so called leader reneged several times on the noise level and tried to jam it up the neighborhoods ****. So mush so that the NCM refused to cancel events and told the residents tough chit ... sue me. Well it happened and as I see it, great track or crap track, the NCM got off lucky. The quality of the track is irrelevant.
The NCM folks made multiple promises in planning and construction to get permitting and, in my opinion, they knew with certainty that the noise abatement would be an issue and has no intent to follow it as promised. That backfired. The walls and berms came after they got shut down the first time and the neighborhood did not back down.
There are several on here that carry the water for the NCM and their interest is selfish and self serving. Like the dog that craps in your driveway, not there own and moves on. Folks go to the track, have fun and go home. This neighborhood has to live with this daily and they have a substantial investment ... not just a fund day out. Extend the consideration to them you expect and demand at your own home.
The NCM had counterfeit intentions regarding noise.
My opinion and worth the price paid for it.
The NCM folks made multiple promises in planning and construction to get permitting and, in my opinion, they knew with certainty that the noise abatement would be an issue and has no intent to follow it as promised. That backfired. The walls and berms came after they got shut down the first time and the neighborhood did not back down.
There are several on here that carry the water for the NCM and their interest is selfish and self serving. Like the dog that craps in your driveway, not there own and moves on. Folks go to the track, have fun and go home. This neighborhood has to live with this daily and they have a substantial investment ... not just a fund day out. Extend the consideration to them you expect and demand at your own home.
The NCM had counterfeit intentions regarding noise.
My opinion and worth the price paid for it.
03-06-2017, 03:25 PM
#11
Drifting
Again rbl?? There has to be something else eating at you. You have disparaged everything about the NCM MSP for quite awhile now. As I have posted to you before, you NEVER miss an opportunity to criticize the track. So what is it? You don't like someone involved with the NCM? You wreck a car on the track? What??
Well you haven't posted to me before that I am aware of for a starter but I will reciprocate this time.
I have absolutely nothing bad to say about NCM and have no dog in the fight. I have been there more than once and only have good things to say. I also enjoy the track (used to) as much as anyone and have run a fair number of them and have owned an abundance of Corvettes.
On the other hand you appear willing to dismiss their terrible performance and total lack of regard for folks who live nearby and continue to champion their poor performance. You also seem to rationalize this away with it is a wonderful track and (in your opinion) is a great asset to the community.
Perhaps you place no value on meeting promises and obligations or in being a good neighbor. I do and that is my entire rub ... nothing more or less. The NCM personnel, with the exception of one party who was overridden, has collectively disregarded, misled or dismissed legitimate complaints. They did not fulfill or try to fulfill their obligations at the onset and appeared to me to do as little as possible and to put a quick band aid on things to shut people up with a new promise. I find this irresponsible. My impression is that you find this acceptable, again because it is such a wonderful facility.
Had the NCM met their obligations and promises regarding the track from the beginning there would be no need for any of these threads and you would have no need to champion their cause. You are a bright guy and certainly you know that this will NEVER be fairly resolved short of killing the track. Tracks make noise and it is there. Why should anyone have to tolerate this at their home?
The planning folks are volunteers and probably did not do their due diligence before allowing this project to proceed in the subject location. I personally think they were hood winked with bad information about noise and unintended difficulties.
I don't know why you have such difficulty with a simple concept of being a good neighbor - not in making new deals after the old promise was broken ... again, and again.
I will admit that you have seized EVERY opportunity to defend this track and have posted a fair amount of the misinformation.
Have a great day ... I'm done
03-06-2017, 09:28 PM
#13
Well you haven't posted to me before that I am aware of for a starter but I will reciprocate this time.
I have absolutely nothing bad to say about NCM and have no dog in the fight. I have been there more than once and only have good things to say. I also enjoy the track (used to) as much as anyone and have run a fair number of them and have owned an abundance of Corvettes.
On the other hand you appear willing to dismiss their terrible performance and total lack of regard for folks who live nearby and continue to champion their poor performance. You also seem to rationalize this away with it is a wonderful track and (in your opinion) is a great asset to the community.
Perhaps you place no value on meeting promises and obligations or in being a good neighbor. I do and that is my entire rub ... nothing more or less. The NCM personnel, with the exception of one party who was overridden, has collectively disregarded, misled or dismissed legitimate complaints. They did not fulfill or try to fulfill their obligations at the onset and appeared to me to do as little as possible and to put a quick band aid on things to shut people up with a new promise. I find this irresponsible. My impression is that you find this acceptable, again because it is such a wonderful facility.
Had the NCM met their obligations and promises regarding the track from the beginning there would be no need for any of these threads and you would have no need to champion their cause. You are a bright guy and certainly you know that this will NEVER be fairly resolved short of killing the track. Tracks make noise and it is there. Why should anyone have to tolerate this at their home?
The planning folks are volunteers and probably did not do their due diligence before allowing this project to proceed in the subject location. I personally think they were hood winked with bad information about noise and unintended difficulties.
I don't know why you have such difficulty with a simple concept of being a good neighbor - not in making new deals after the old promise was broken ... again, and again.
I will admit that you have seized EVERY opportunity to defend this track and have posted a fair amount of the misinformation.
Have a great day ... I'm done
I have absolutely nothing bad to say about NCM and have no dog in the fight. I have been there more than once and only have good things to say. I also enjoy the track (used to) as much as anyone and have run a fair number of them and have owned an abundance of Corvettes.
On the other hand you appear willing to dismiss their terrible performance and total lack of regard for folks who live nearby and continue to champion their poor performance. You also seem to rationalize this away with it is a wonderful track and (in your opinion) is a great asset to the community.
Perhaps you place no value on meeting promises and obligations or in being a good neighbor. I do and that is my entire rub ... nothing more or less. The NCM personnel, with the exception of one party who was overridden, has collectively disregarded, misled or dismissed legitimate complaints. They did not fulfill or try to fulfill their obligations at the onset and appeared to me to do as little as possible and to put a quick band aid on things to shut people up with a new promise. I find this irresponsible. My impression is that you find this acceptable, again because it is such a wonderful facility.
Had the NCM met their obligations and promises regarding the track from the beginning there would be no need for any of these threads and you would have no need to champion their cause. You are a bright guy and certainly you know that this will NEVER be fairly resolved short of killing the track. Tracks make noise and it is there. Why should anyone have to tolerate this at their home?
The planning folks are volunteers and probably did not do their due diligence before allowing this project to proceed in the subject location. I personally think they were hood winked with bad information about noise and unintended difficulties.
I don't know why you have such difficulty with a simple concept of being a good neighbor - not in making new deals after the old promise was broken ... again, and again.
I will admit that you have seized EVERY opportunity to defend this track and have posted a fair amount of the misinformation.
Have a great day ... I'm done
03-07-2017, 09:37 PM
#14
Supporting Vendor
Member Since: Dec 2016
Location: Lookin over Hoover Dam
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I followed this case in depth, even listened to preliminary hearings and testimony in full. There are absolutely two sides to this story. NCM's noise abatement strategy was based on a land acquisition that was not completed in full due to changes in original agreements between multiple parties. The property got size restricted which led to some abatement strategies not having room to be built.
On the neighbor side, they certainly were disturbed to some degree, but there was also an opportunistic mindset there, with people obtaining rental property, rezoning and attempting to feed off of the track in terms of land value. Then, turned to say their property value was hurt by the noise.
You have a right to the covenant of quiet enjoyment for sure, but there are tactics and bs that led to this happening. Like the neighbors forming an LLC to claim damages...i.e. a money grab.
On the neighbor side, they certainly were disturbed to some degree, but there was also an opportunistic mindset there, with people obtaining rental property, rezoning and attempting to feed off of the track in terms of land value. Then, turned to say their property value was hurt by the noise.
You have a right to the covenant of quiet enjoyment for sure, but there are tactics and bs that led to this happening. Like the neighbors forming an LLC to claim damages...i.e. a money grab.