Autocrossing my C5Z on the new Aldan American Coilovers
06-06-2018, 12:45 PM
#341
Burning Brakes
Only thing I can do is go to them with a list of demands, check this and this, set alignment to this and that's about it. My shocks are... just running weird.. what else can I say... What specifics for them to check so to satisfy TPS and Aldan?
I want my problems resolved, I bought this to enjoy my car not to incur more costs... It's wasted labour ($$$), people got to realize the average individual is not a race shop or race team, I can't just go in and throw springs on and get a corner balance and alignment for free. It should be done once and done right, otherwise it's an incurring cost. Furthermore scheduling shop time is not easy. What do you want me to do a dyno shock lol, that wasn't provided by Aldan, but I sure as heck ain't doing that, nor do I know where to get one done here in Canada.
I asked them to call Aldan on my behalf and with all due respect they don't have to do that and they won't because they asked me to talk to the manufacturer. I did and instead I am getting crap for it.
I want my problems resolved, I bought this to enjoy my car not to incur more costs... It's wasted labour ($$$), people got to realize the average individual is not a race shop or race team, I can't just go in and throw springs on and get a corner balance and alignment for free. It should be done once and done right, otherwise it's an incurring cost. Furthermore scheduling shop time is not easy. What do you want me to do a dyno shock lol, that wasn't provided by Aldan, but I sure as heck ain't doing that, nor do I know where to get one done here in Canada.
I asked them to call Aldan on my behalf and with all due respect they don't have to do that and they won't because they asked me to talk to the manufacturer. I did and instead I am getting crap for it.
Last edited by a_ahmed; 06-06-2018 at 12:52 PM.
06-06-2018, 01:03 PM
#342
06-06-2018, 01:09 PM
#343
Drifting
No the problem never went away man, it just reduced when I upped rebound damping in the rear, for a little while I was like oh cool the car is getting more stable, but since I drive it daily, it has progressively worsened, there is no way I am lowering from 9 in the rear.. and if I up it to 10... I'll probably get the same... that's why when I went from 4 to 6 it was a big difference, then I went to 8, more difference, went down to 7, felt worse than 6 suddenly, went up to 9... stuck there since and now... it's starting to get worse again.
Front has been at 4 the whole time... I think it should be more like a 3, it crashes a bit too much over bumps and ABS activates (as it gets too unsettled, it feels like too much), but really it's the rear end that does not feel good. The only reason I upped the front compression is that the steering is not very tight on vettes I feel... but that's a bandaid... I do intend to get delrin bushings all around one day... hopefully that'll make a difference. DRM's aluminum steering rack bushing made a minute difference.
I went pretty fast today on a collectors highway (empty / $$) just to see how it behaves.. and sure enough I wouldn't want to go faster than 230kph.... the rear end was a handful. It kept hopping around, if only I could make a rear view recording of it, I am 100% anyone viewing it would see the rear all over the place, jumping and jiggling, because that is what I feel...
That feeling when you go over a bump and you bounce and if you try to change lanes quickly the whole chassis feels unstable in the rear and the springs bounce, and the weirdest thing is, it feels like the left and right bounce differently... but I am 100% I set both sides to 9, regardless, on any setting this behavior was happening... why I don't know, it's really upsetting and not enjoyable.
First issue is it jacks down and stays after bumps then jacks up, two, it bounces and the bounce seems to happen in delay for both sides that's the best way I can explain this, third I feel the rear right is less controlling of the spring than the left, it just seems to misbehave and bounce worse, third if I am going high speed on a straight and there is an irregularity, the whole car will bounce side to side not just front to back (not just the rear end bouncing).
This is what I am trying to describe... the whole car seems to experience this side to side bounce, I know this should not be happening regardless of spring rate... So it's these two behaviours that really make it undriveable safely especially to the limit. Trust me the stock car was such a breeze to drive, probably the easiest car I ever drove which made me fall in love with the vette, although not very refined or precise.
Front has been at 4 the whole time... I think it should be more like a 3, it crashes a bit too much over bumps and ABS activates (as it gets too unsettled, it feels like too much), but really it's the rear end that does not feel good. The only reason I upped the front compression is that the steering is not very tight on vettes I feel... but that's a bandaid... I do intend to get delrin bushings all around one day... hopefully that'll make a difference. DRM's aluminum steering rack bushing made a minute difference.
I went pretty fast today on a collectors highway (empty / $$) just to see how it behaves.. and sure enough I wouldn't want to go faster than 230kph.... the rear end was a handful. It kept hopping around, if only I could make a rear view recording of it, I am 100% anyone viewing it would see the rear all over the place, jumping and jiggling, because that is what I feel...
That feeling when you go over a bump and you bounce and if you try to change lanes quickly the whole chassis feels unstable in the rear and the springs bounce, and the weirdest thing is, it feels like the left and right bounce differently... but I am 100% I set both sides to 9, regardless, on any setting this behavior was happening... why I don't know, it's really upsetting and not enjoyable.
First issue is it jacks down and stays after bumps then jacks up, two, it bounces and the bounce seems to happen in delay for both sides that's the best way I can explain this, third I feel the rear right is less controlling of the spring than the left, it just seems to misbehave and bounce worse, third if I am going high speed on a straight and there is an irregularity, the whole car will bounce side to side not just front to back (not just the rear end bouncing).
This is what I am trying to describe... the whole car seems to experience this side to side bounce, I know this should not be happening regardless of spring rate... So it's these two behaviours that really make it undriveable safely especially to the limit. Trust me the stock car was such a breeze to drive, probably the easiest car I ever drove which made me fall in love with the vette, although not very refined or precise.
06-06-2018, 01:13 PM
#344
Ahmed I’m on the 600F/550R setup with 32MM Strano front bar. It is what it is about you taking over my little racing thread with your issues, nothing I can do about that. But do you think it’s fair to blame the Coilovers when A) No one else has the same issues, and B) you haven’t put other Coilovers in and fixed the problem? Until you are certain, by at least trying to fix the problem with much the much higher priced Coilovers you mention, I think it is ridiculous to publicly announce the problem is the Aldans, despite all the success the rest of us are having with them.
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01badvette (06-06-2018)
06-06-2018, 01:16 PM
#345
Burning Brakes
Ahmed I’m on the 600F/550R setup with 32MM Strano front bar. It is what it is about you taking over my little racing thread with your issues, nothing I can do about that. But do you think it’s fair to blame the Coilovers when A) No one else has the same issues, and B) you haven’t put other Coilovers in and fixed the problem? Until you are certain, by at least trying to fix the problem with much the much higher priced Coilovers you mention, I think it is ridiculous to publicly announce the problem is the Aldans, despite all the success the rest of us are having with them.
Last edited by a_ahmed; 06-06-2018 at 01:17 PM.
06-06-2018, 01:20 PM
#346
Drifting
Toms might have a good point with starting a thread in tech. It might get more feedback than this thread.
Also, some pics of them installed may be helpful... there's not much to them but i could see getting a left/rear bracket backwards and causing binding. something weird like that.
Also, some pics of them installed may be helpful... there's not much to them but i could see getting a left/rear bracket backwards and causing binding. something weird like that.
06-06-2018, 01:58 PM
#347
Racer
The point is that I am being told that it's my fault or the shop's fault, that is ridiculous simply because the argument is well there are others who have no issues. There are also others who have issues but they are not being mentioned. So I am being thrown under the bus because they sell like hot cakes. Being yelled at by TPS that I 'chose track only 700# which are too much' which is first of all not true and second others are saying they are running those rates and not experiencing issues, so either way I am being thrown under the bus. That's the only reason I mentioned other manufacturers because the rate does not sound ridiculous at all and I actually have 650# rear.
My suggestion is start a tech thread, your crying wolf but your putting your self in a position where your kinda throwing yourself under the bus. You cant tell us alignment specs, your tire pressures to begin with were out in left field, you saying you have a racing/performance driving background but don't know alignment specs for your own car that your going over 260kph on a highway? I tried helping you out but I really think you have a binding issue from either bushings or over tightening of the shock mount bolts.
Yes, I have a personal residential garage and the basic tools to do an alignment and setup nothing fancy or special, I built my car and knowledge about the car from trial and error and help from the forum over the last few years from a stock base model C5 to a Well prepped C5 CAM class / Optima street car level car.
My best suggestion is sit down and organize your thoughts the best you can about what is happening with the car and open a tech thread with an open mind to try what they are telling you. Piece by piece you don't need to spend money just take the time to go over your car with their suggestions and an open mind. Good Luck
06-06-2018, 02:05 PM
#348
Racer
Now back to our regularly scheduled program...
Thank you Tom, I see you said you went to 600lbs springs in the front did this help reduce push and turn in going into corners and keep the front end planted firmer? I run a lot of small parking lot Miata size autoX events and was thinking of going to something along these lines with my setup. I only have two events on the 315 square setup but seem to be struggling to get my hard turn into tight corners exactly where I want it just doesn't feel sharp and I am having trouble reducing push into the corners while driving at 10/10 on autoX courses.
06-06-2018, 03:11 PM
#349
Now back to our regularly scheduled program...
Thank you Tom, I see you said you went to 600lbs springs in the front did this help reduce push and turn in going into corners and keep the front end planted firmer? I run a lot of small parking lot Miata size autoX events and was thinking of going to something along these lines with my setup. I only have two events on the 315 square setup but seem to be struggling to get my hard turn into tight corners exactly where I want it just doesn't feel sharp and I am having trouble reducing push into the corners while driving at 10/10 on autoX courses.
Thank you Tom, I see you said you went to 600lbs springs in the front did this help reduce push and turn in going into corners and keep the front end planted firmer? I run a lot of small parking lot Miata size autoX events and was thinking of going to something along these lines with my setup. I only have two events on the 315 square setup but seem to be struggling to get my hard turn into tight corners exactly where I want it just doesn't feel sharp and I am having trouble reducing push into the corners while driving at 10/10 on autoX courses.
06-06-2018, 03:14 PM
#350
Racer
Toms might have a good point with starting a thread in tech. It might get more feedback than this thread.
Also, some pics of them installed may be helpful... there's not much to them but i could see getting a left/rear bracket backwards and causing binding. something weird like that.
Also, some pics of them installed may be helpful... there's not much to them but i could see getting a left/rear bracket backwards and causing binding. something weird like that.
The rear bracket would do that, I put mine on backwards the first time and the coil spring will hit the a-arm substantially. Luckily I noticed when I reinstalled the A-arm.
06-06-2018, 03:18 PM
#351
Racer
On a road course I think the 600 Fronts are great, they reduce the braking dive a bit. On 90% of the Autocross courses they are good, but when I run in the parking lot at Auto Club Speedway where the lot is very slick, the front feels like it needs less spring to get grip. Because of that if I was going to only Autocross, no road course, I’d prob go 550F. Front push is always a battle on those tight courses. One thing I did notice, when I switched from the 315/335 Rival S setup to the 275/305 RE71R setup was the stiffer sidewall on the RE71R let me place the car better, I felt like I could get it that much closer to each cone...
Great point, I just came from the RE71R 275 square setup to the rival 315s. The RE71R are less forgiving for over driving but felt a lot sharper. I will continue tightening the nut behind the wheel before I make anymore changes I think the car is very close now and more seat time will do wonders.
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Tomswheels (06-06-2018)
06-06-2018, 03:40 PM
#352
Supporting Vendor
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The point is that I am being told that it's my fault or the shop's fault, that is ridiculous simply because the argument is well there are others who have no issues. There are also others who have issues but they are not being mentioned. So I am being thrown under the bus because they sell like hot cakes. Being yelled at by TPS that I 'chose track only 700# which are too much' which is first of all not true and second others are saying they are running those rates and not experiencing issues, so either way I am being thrown under the bus. That's the only reason I mentioned other manufacturers because the rate does not sound ridiculous at all and I actually have 650# rear.
#1-I never YELLED at you... I asked you to bring it to another shop to get a second opinion because it's obvious you are struggling to figure out what the issue is. ESPECIALLY now since you said the shop who did the install REFUSES to contact Aldan to try and sort out the issue.
#2-I NEVER said you ordered the kit with 700LB springs.. we don't even offer it as a normal option unless it's a special request and you didn't request it. You mentioned other manufacturers are using a 700LB spring and I said for your application 700LB spring would be too much.
#3-TPS has ALWAYS been willing to help their customers with setup and we were never contacted by you directly to help your setup. You have been dealing with Aldan and I was recently forwarded your email string with them.
The real unfortunate part here is the shop you had do the install refuses to talk to Aldan to see if there are any issues so they have left it up to you to figure it out which is a bunch of BS. If it was my car and I was you I would take it to a shop who is willing to help you sort out these issues... I believe it's either an install issue OR maybe your bushings are bad in the arms. Bad bushings will make the car handle weird. Could the coilovers be bad? It's possible but we need to make sure its' not something else 1st before new parts are sent out to you and you have the same issues.
The thing that is bad I am seeing is you had ride issues with the older set of coilovers you had.. that tends to tell me you have other issues with the car, If you want us to help you please contact us directly... posting in someone's thread doesn't help and let's find a shop that can help you sort out what the issue is... I'm fairly confident it's not the coilovers
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Tomswheels (06-06-2018)
06-06-2018, 04:33 PM
#353
Tech Contributor
I had the same experience the beginning of this year when I put my 315/30R18 rival S square setup on, the car road terrible on the street and just felt off. I needed to change ride heights and rake or stagger as I call it front to back and they dialed in nicely with the ride greatly improved. I have limited experience with GS/z06 C6's. The 2 tracks you described are vastly different I would say try making small changes in ride height and dampening on the coil overs on the street with the NT01's on the car and get it to where your comfortable that way before the next trip to Big Willow and see how it translates to the track. Let us know how you make out and your findings.
Unfortunately I still have some repairs to do so it'll be a bit before I can test more.
a_ahmed, I do think there are some other issues going on with yours. The newest C5 is 14 years old. If you haven't gone through the entire suspension, including a-arm bushings, ball joints, hubs, tie rods, sway bar bushings, etc I think you may want to consider that. On my 2013 GS, I'm on my 3rd set of upper front a-arms and 2nd set of lowers due to the bushings pushing out. If yours are the originals, that is but one example of what could be wrong. Track time takes its toll on parts.
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Tomswheels (06-06-2018)
06-06-2018, 06:51 PM
#354
The issues you are describing don't sound shock related to me honestly. A blown or bad shock would act different.
To me it sounds like something is loose or broken. Could be any number of things that just got overlooked on install.
When I pulled my car apart to do coilovers and delrin bushings I found a couple bushings that were pulling out, two bad ball joints, and a bad wheel bearing. When I put it all together I had issues with some things not wanting to stay torqued, could be the problem you have.
Pictures would help.
How much clearance do you have on the rear between the spring and the toe arm when it's loaded up? I had to go with an aftermarket bumpsteer and toe arm kit on mine to get the clearance foe the geometry to work.
(I have LG G2s bur the fit should be similar)
To me it sounds like something is loose or broken. Could be any number of things that just got overlooked on install.
When I pulled my car apart to do coilovers and delrin bushings I found a couple bushings that were pulling out, two bad ball joints, and a bad wheel bearing. When I put it all together I had issues with some things not wanting to stay torqued, could be the problem you have.
Pictures would help.
How much clearance do you have on the rear between the spring and the toe arm when it's loaded up? I had to go with an aftermarket bumpsteer and toe arm kit on mine to get the clearance foe the geometry to work.
(I have LG G2s bur the fit should be similar)
Last edited by eric1855; 06-06-2018 at 06:52 PM.
06-07-2018, 03:38 PM
#355
Melting Slicks
Boy, can't wait to try mine out! Hoping I'm like the majority and love them! I had Pfadt Featherlites before that I bought from TPS. Was never able to dial them in. They were great on a smooth road but where do you find those! lol So I tore the car down and pulled the Pfadts. Installed new ball joints all around. Installed SKF race hubs. New tie rod ends all around. Now the Aldans. They are installed but I need wheels. My HRE wheels are leaking so rather than rebuilding them, gonna try to find another set of wheels and rebuild the HREs for the next set of tires. So until then, the car is on stands. Once I get wheels, will drive down to Rio Vista to Abel's Chevrolet for the alignment. Fingers crossed it works out. When I talked to Rich at Abels about Aldans, he had no experience with them. So we shall see. If it's still no good, will drive down to TPS and hopefully Mike can sort me out. I have been sitting on AI ported heads/cam/headers, Monster clutch/..... and a bunch of other goodies for 3 years now. Didn't want to install until the suspension was worth doing the engine work. So hoping the Aldans work out. I want to love this car again. It's a 97 with 80K miles. Will hopefully post up results soon. Until then, this thread has my head spinning on what to expect!!!!!
06-08-2018, 09:07 AM
#356
Drifting
bah i was supposed to take this out for it's first autox on Sat but it looks like taking the kids to the lake is winning... Sigh... #dadlife
06-08-2018, 09:12 AM
#357
Racer
haha #dadlife I need to start using that I spend more time wrenching and tuning on my sons junior kart then I do on my car lately
06-08-2018, 09:14 AM
#358
Racer
Boy, can't wait to try mine out! Hoping I'm like the majority and love them! I had Pfadt Featherlites before that I bought from TPS. Was never able to dial them in. They were great on a smooth road but where do you find those! lol So I tore the car down and pulled the Pfadts. Installed new ball joints all around. Installed SKF race hubs. New tie rod ends all around. Now the Aldans. They are installed but I need wheels. My HRE wheels are leaking so rather than rebuilding them, gonna try to find another set of wheels and rebuild the HREs for the next set of tires. So until then, the car is on stands. Once I get wheels, will drive down to Rio Vista to Abel's Chevrolet for the alignment. Fingers crossed it works out. When I talked to Rich at Abels about Aldans, he had no experience with them. So we shall see. If it's still no good, will drive down to TPS and hopefully Mike can sort me out. I have been sitting on AI ported heads/cam/headers, Monster clutch/..... and a bunch of other goodies for 3 years now. Didn't want to install until the suspension was worth doing the engine work. So hoping the Aldans work out. I want to love this car again. It's a 97 with 80K miles. Will hopefully post up results soon. Until then, this thread has my head spinning on what to expect!!!!!
Rich should be able to get them working quite well for you, check you bushing too while your under there. Keep us updated.
06-16-2018, 12:55 PM
#359
Melting Slicks
My crossroads right now is the wheels. I have been running 18/19 HRE 3 piece wheels. One of the rears leaks so it needs to be pulled apart and resealed. No reason to do just one, and if I am gonna fix them now, I also want to powder coat them as well. So I would rather just buy another set of wheels and fix my HRE's for the next set of tires and rotate them with each set of tires down the road. But I'm not sure if I should try an 18/18 setup. I've been spinning the head thinking the extra sidewall in the rear would improve the ride quality some. My front tires are 275/35R18 and are new. I have one new 305/30R19 but need another as one got destroyed from running flat due to the wheel leaking. So I could just buy two new rears if I go with all 18" wheels, or buy 1 if I stay with the 19" rears.
Any thoughts from you experts? And if I were to go with the 18"s in the rear, what size tire should I go with to match up with the 275/35 fronts? Tires are Potenza Pole Positions.
06-18-2018, 02:19 PM
#360
Racer
I've looked over every part in my suspension and can't find a flaw. It's clean enough to eat off! Once my wheel situation gets resolved, I will just let Rich's crew set it up for me and look over the rest of the suspension while doing so. Hope this time, I've found the solution with the Aldans.
My crossroads right now is the wheels. I have been running 18/19 HRE 3 piece wheels. One of the rears leaks so it needs to be pulled apart and resealed. No reason to do just one, and if I am gonna fix them now, I also want to powder coat them as well. So I would rather just buy another set of wheels and fix my HRE's for the next set of tires and rotate them with each set of tires down the road. But I'm not sure if I should try an 18/18 setup. I've been spinning the head thinking the extra sidewall in the rear would improve the ride quality some. My front tires are 275/35R18 and are new. I have one new 305/30R19 but need another as one got destroyed from running flat due to the wheel leaking. So I could just buy two new rears if I go with all 18" wheels, or buy 1 if I stay with the 19" rears.
Any thoughts from you experts? And if I were to go with the 18"s in the rear, what size tire should I go with to match up with the 275/35 fronts? Tires are Potenza Pole Positions.
My crossroads right now is the wheels. I have been running 18/19 HRE 3 piece wheels. One of the rears leaks so it needs to be pulled apart and resealed. No reason to do just one, and if I am gonna fix them now, I also want to powder coat them as well. So I would rather just buy another set of wheels and fix my HRE's for the next set of tires and rotate them with each set of tires down the road. But I'm not sure if I should try an 18/18 setup. I've been spinning the head thinking the extra sidewall in the rear would improve the ride quality some. My front tires are 275/35R18 and are new. I have one new 305/30R19 but need another as one got destroyed from running flat due to the wheel leaking. So I could just buy two new rears if I go with all 18" wheels, or buy 1 if I stay with the 19" rears.
Any thoughts from you experts? And if I were to go with the 18"s in the rear, what size tire should I go with to match up with the 275/35 fronts? Tires are Potenza Pole Positions.
Extra sidewall could improve the ride some but that would depend on tire. I ran a 275/35 square setup for 2 years with RE71Rs and loved it. Are you looking for autoX/track duty setup or just a normal street setup?