2018 scca cam
12-01-2017, 08:57 PM
#101
That's actually become one of the problems: there are states where kit cars are no longer able to get titled. No title > no inspection > no insurance > not legal. Or, say you build a tube frame car and hang a composite replica body on it, which is now explicitly legal. How do you title that? You can tack a VIN plate to it from a real production car, but that's illegal. So a lot of the builds that the rules now explicitly allow will run afoul of the requirement to be street legal. Hell, the kit Cobra that did well last year didn't have a windshield or wipers, both of which are specifically required in the rules, but more importantly are required to pass state inspections. But can you imagine the debacle it will be at an event if someone protests a car like that for not being street legal there?
If a car competes illegally, it is up to the competitors at the event to police the rules. That's how Solo operates. So if you actually show up to an event and compete against that Cobra, feel free to protest it for not having wipers or whatever other rule you want to come up with. The Protest Committee will look at the written rules and make a decision. That decision then sets precedent for the future of the class. Their decision may be like the STX protest from Nationals 2 years ago where they told the rules committees to come up with a better rule... CAMers probably won't like more rules though, so be careful what you ask for.
12-01-2017, 09:05 PM
#102
Max G’s
That's actually become one of the problems: there are states where kit cars are no longer able to get titled. No title > no inspection > no insurance > not legal. Or, say you build a tube frame car and hang a composite replica body on it, which is now explicitly legal. How do you title that? You can tack a VIN plate to it from a real production car, but that's illegal. So a lot of the builds that the rules now explicitly allow will run afoul of the requirement to be street legal. Hell, the kit Cobra that did well last year didn't have a windshield or wipers, both of which are specifically required in the rules, but more importantly are required to pass state inspections. But can you imagine the debacle it will be at an event if someone protests a car like that for not being street legal there?
12-01-2017, 09:07 PM
#103
Max G’s
Welcome to the SCCA. In classes where emissions components have to be kept, but cats can be changed, the new cat doesn't have to be 50 state legal, it just has to meet minimum cell count and length. The same thing applies to fuel (100 or now 93 aren't available everywhere) or kit cars (different licensing rules by state). The rules are the rules, and they try to encompass the most logical average from around the country.
If a car competes illegally, it is up to the competitors at the event to police the rules. That's how Solo operates. So if you actually show up to an event and compete against that Cobra, feel free to protest it for not having wipers or whatever other rule you want to come up with. The Protest Committee will look at the written rules and make a decision. That decision then sets precedent for the future of the class. Their decision may be like the STX protest from Nationals 2 years ago where they told the rules committees to come up with a better rule... CAMers probably won't like more rules though, so be careful what you ask for.
If a car competes illegally, it is up to the competitors at the event to police the rules. That's how Solo operates. So if you actually show up to an event and compete against that Cobra, feel free to protest it for not having wipers or whatever other rule you want to come up with. The Protest Committee will look at the written rules and make a decision. That decision then sets precedent for the future of the class. Their decision may be like the STX protest from Nationals 2 years ago where they told the rules committees to come up with a better rule... CAMers probably won't like more rules though, so be careful what you ask for.
12-02-2017, 08:44 AM
#104
Drifting
Thread Starter
12-02-2017, 11:37 PM
#105
Drifting
12-03-2017, 11:12 AM
#106
Le Mans Master
To clarify, the changes I would advocate are not additional rules, just different rules. Referencing the new 2018 rules, I'd:
- Change the wording of the first bullet point under Eligible Vehicles:“Vehicle must have originated as a mass-produced domestic automobile or “pick-up” truck of front-engine/rear-wheel-drive (FE/RWD) configuration, and must retain that configuration.”
- Change the wording of the first bullet point under Body Allowances:“Cars must retain the original frame or unibody. Reinforcements may be added, subframes may be replaced or modified, and suspension pickup points may be changed (as long as the wheelbase remains compliant to the rules). Engines must remain forward of the driver. Wheelbase and body scale must remain true to the original. Incidental wheelbase changes resulting from the allowed replacement of suspension components or modifications of suspension design are allowed. All interpretations of this rule will be made by the stewards, and competitors are encouraged to consult with them prior to committing to a build plan that approaches the limits of this rule.”
- I'd get rid of the weight penalty bullet point for Corvettes and Vipers under the CAM-S section.
- I might get rid of the two different bullet points about Lexan windows (I'd have to get a better understanding of why they're in there in the first place, though).
Last edited by MatthewMiller; 12-03-2017 at 11:15 AM.
12-03-2017, 10:20 PM
#107
Max G’s
To clarify, the changes I would advocate are not additional rules, just different rules. Referencing the new 2018 rules, I'd:
- Change the wording of the first bullet point under Eligible Vehicles:“Vehicle must have originated as a mass-produced domestic automobile or “pick-up” truck of front-engine/rear-wheel-drive (FE/RWD) configuration, and must retain that configuration.”
- Change the wording of the first bullet point under Body Allowances:“Cars must retain the original frame or unibody. Reinforcements may be added, subframes may be replaced or modified, and suspension pickup points may be changed (as long as the wheelbase remains compliant to the rules). Engines must remain forward of the driver. Wheelbase and body scale must remain true to the original. Incidental wheelbase changes resulting from the allowed replacement of suspension components or modifications of suspension design are allowed. All interpretations of this rule will be made by the stewards, and competitors are encouraged to consult with them prior to committing to a build plan that approaches the limits of this rule.”
- I'd get rid of the weight penalty bullet point for Corvettes and Vipers under the CAM-S section.
- I might get rid of the two different bullet points about Lexan windows (I'd have to get a better understanding of why they're in there in the first place, though).
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bsalie99 (07-17-2018)
12-04-2017, 12:07 AM
#108
Le Mans Master
I hope I can get there next year, too! If you, Kenny, and I all make it, we should park our red C4s together.
12-04-2017, 10:10 PM
#109
Max G’s
12-15-2017, 11:43 AM
#110
Drifting
Thread Starter
Well, SCCA finally published the CAM Challenge & Invitational schedule. The only Challenge event will be at Peru in August and the Invitational at Lincoln.
There was no mentioning of any CAM events for the West Coast or for Texas or even anything related being run in conjunction with a Pro-Solo event for the West Coast. I wonder if SCCA abandoned that idea combining a CAM event with a Pro-Solo or was that just a Bullstuff rumor to begin with?
In anycase, it appears that there is no West Coast CAM event scheduled, so far this year. In checking with both San Francisco and Cal Club regions neither Region are planning for hosting a CAM event for 2018 so I guess there will not be a CAM event on the West Coast. That is not a good sign.
There was no mentioning of any CAM events for the West Coast or for Texas or even anything related being run in conjunction with a Pro-Solo event for the West Coast. I wonder if SCCA abandoned that idea combining a CAM event with a Pro-Solo or was that just a Bullstuff rumor to begin with?
In anycase, it appears that there is no West Coast CAM event scheduled, so far this year. In checking with both San Francisco and Cal Club regions neither Region are planning for hosting a CAM event for 2018 so I guess there will not be a CAM event on the West Coast. That is not a good sign.
12-15-2017, 11:54 AM
#111
Le Mans Master
Wow, you're right. Maybe there will be clarification for the TX and CA Pro Solo events forthcoming.
12-15-2017, 01:04 PM
#113
Burning Brakes
Member Since: May 2001
Location: Coto de Caza CA
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Looking forward to the first shake down runs for our upcoming CAM project this weekend. Lots of work to do, but if all goes well we may be able to run it at the Fontana Pro. Going to be nice to have a relaxed set of rules, and no jacket on the line, just get back to having fun.
12-15-2017, 01:26 PM
#115
Burning Brakes
Member Since: May 2001
Location: Coto de Caza CA
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Hi Ken, good to see you still kicking around out there. Been a long time.
I will be helping my dad develop his C5. Not sure how much time we will be able to put into it, as both my wife and I are planning on doing the Runoffs at Sonoma, but it will be a fun distraction.
I will be helping my dad develop his C5. Not sure how much time we will be able to put into it, as both my wife and I are planning on doing the Runoffs at Sonoma, but it will be a fun distraction.
Last edited by RX7 KLR; 12-15-2017 at 01:35 PM.
12-16-2017, 08:53 AM
#116
Drifting
Thread Starter
Jason - You know that Crows is a great place to sort out your car and the CAM-S class at the American Autocross Series (AAS) events have a lot of talented drivers that you can run against and the best group of guys to swap lies with after the event.
In the class there are numerous drivers such as; Brian Hobaugh, Rich Willhoff, Bryan Stewart, Sean Breese, Jeff Glorioso, Kenny Yeo, Tom Smiley, and on special occasions Craig Nagler and Jaime Ohlrich. Sorry, if I left anybody out and it is 5:30 AM and before breakfast.
You ought to come up and run against us. We live for the competition.
In the class there are numerous drivers such as; Brian Hobaugh, Rich Willhoff, Bryan Stewart, Sean Breese, Jeff Glorioso, Kenny Yeo, Tom Smiley, and on special occasions Craig Nagler and Jaime Ohlrich. Sorry, if I left anybody out and it is 5:30 AM and before breakfast.
You ought to come up and run against us. We live for the competition.
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Moto One (12-16-2017)
12-16-2017, 10:55 AM
#117
Drifting
Jason - You know that Crows is a great place to sort out your car and the CAM-S class at the American Autocross Series (AAS) events have a lot of talented drivers that you can run against and the best group of guys to swap lies with after the event.
In the class there are numerous drivers such as; Brian Hobaugh, Rich Willhoff, Bryan Stewart, Sean Breese, Jeff Glorioso, Kenny Yeo, Tom Smiley, and on special occasions Craig Nagler and Jaime Ohlrich. Sorry, if I left anybody out and it is 5:30 AM and before breakfast.
You ought to come up and run against us. We live for the competition.
In the class there are numerous drivers such as; Brian Hobaugh, Rich Willhoff, Bryan Stewart, Sean Breese, Jeff Glorioso, Kenny Yeo, Tom Smiley, and on special occasions Craig Nagler and Jaime Ohlrich. Sorry, if I left anybody out and it is 5:30 AM and before breakfast.
You ought to come up and run against us. We live for the competition.
Mark.
Last edited by Moto One; 12-16-2017 at 10:57 AM.
12-16-2017, 11:07 AM
#118
Drifting
Thread Starter
Mark who? Oh yah, that guy that use be a firefighter and lives up near Truckee with a Red C5 ZO6 that I see occasionally driving on IS 80. The snow tires would be legal only during snow conditions. The studs would be optional.
12-16-2017, 02:50 PM
#119
Drifting
To clarify, the changes I would advocate are not additional rules, just different rules. Referencing the new 2018 rules, I'd:
- Change the wording of the first bullet point under Eligible Vehicles:“Vehicle must have originated as a mass-produced domestic automobile or “pick-up” truck of front-engine/rear-wheel-drive (FE/RWD) configuration, and must retain that configuration.”
- Change the wording of the first bullet point under Body Allowances:“Cars must retain the original frame or unibody. Reinforcements may be added, subframes may be replaced or modified, and suspension pickup points may be changed (as long as the wheelbase remains compliant to the rules). Engines must remain forward of the driver. Wheelbase and body scale must remain true to the original. Incidental wheelbase changes resulting from the allowed replacement of suspension components or modifications of suspension design are allowed. All interpretations of this rule will be made by the stewards, and competitors are encouraged to consult with them prior to committing to a build plan that approaches the limits of this rule.”
- I'd get rid of the weight penalty bullet point for Corvettes and Vipers under the CAM-S section.
- I might get rid of the two different bullet points about Lexan windows (I'd have to get a better understanding of why they're in there in the first place, though).
Also bear in mind that these rules cover all the CAM classes as presented, so consider implications on the other classes (ie: Saleen Mustang, where the manufacturer of record was Saleen and not Ford).
Comment made on the spirit of presenting something to SCCA that is worded to minimize blowback.
Last edited by acrace; 12-16-2017 at 02:51 PM.
12-16-2017, 05:04 PM
#120
Le Mans Master
Also bear in mind that these rules cover all the CAM classes as presented, so consider implications on the other classes (ie: Saleen Mustang, where the manufacturer of record was Saleen and not Ford).
Comment made on the spirit of presenting something to SCCA that is worded to minimize blowback.