village idiot

so I was going through Geico and Progressive and found Progressive definitely has a strict track day exclusion:
4. bodily injury or property damage resulting from, or sustained during practice or preparation for:
a. any pre-arranged or organized racing, stunting, speed or demolition contest or activity; or
b. any driving activity conducted on a permanent or temporary racetrack or racecourse

Geico however has a gray area:
Loss caused by an auto driven in or preparing for any racing, speed, or demolition contest or stunting activity of any nature, whether or not prearranged or organized.

HPDE definitely aren't a racing contest, speed contest or demolition contest (or stunting, presumably). I think Geico might be on the hook if you crash at HPDE. Progressive, you're definitely screwed on.


Has anyone read other insurance policies? these are the only two I have access to. If others have state farm, all state, etc- I'd love to read the exclusions page.

raff

Ask an one of their reps (and get the info in writing) or OTOH -
Track day insurance has no "gray" or "I think" areas.

Nowanker

If Geico doesn't want to pay out in one of their 'gray' areas, it will be up to you to prevail in court.
Got a team of lawyers on your payroll?

cre8fun

my experience with insurance - I don't want to be in the gray area.

my understanding of HPDE - use lockton or a like insurer. street insurers will run. my last issue was a blown tire at 142mph at summit. I thought I got off easy. bill came to 30K. Lockton paid in full. best $300 I ve spent. I think it's crazy to chance it. I ran 70 days on track before something happened, but when it did, I was glad I was appropriately insured.

BTW - from experience, I don't care what my agent has to say. if they can get an underwriter to write me a letter stating that they will cover, I'm happy. chance of agent asking an underwriter to issue a letter saying they cover HPDE, well lottery is more likely. if you get the letter, feel great, just don't bet on it. underwriter drives the bus.

ErnieN85

Travelers, State Farm,Liberty Mutual & Hartford are no go!

cre8fun

Ive had many people tell me their agent said they are OK for HPDE and then when I pushed them to get a letter from an underwriter, they've come back and said nope, the company won't issue a letter - meaning nope it's not really covered. not worth the risk in my book. I know my agent wants to be my friend, but a 30+K loss is not worth gambling in my book.

there was gray area 15 years ago and lots of folklore still bouncing around in the pits about the guy who rented a car and it was still covered as he totaled it, but in the real world, most policies say the policy is void the moment you pull onto a "racing surface."

village idiot

yes.

n8goodrow

For what it's worth I've talked to several folks at Geico, all resulted in a No.

apex26

The Personal Auto Policy was designed decades ago, before track events were popular. So, usually no premium is being collected for these events--there's a first clue. When you read a policy, you first read general exclusions, and you probably won't find it addressed there. Next, go to Liability exclusions. (paying for the other guy and legal representation for you). There, I have heard some companies have NO exclusions, or just to racing or timed speed event, in which case there may be coverage. The strictest exclusion is for anything on a dedicated permanent or temporary race track or timed event (autocross). Remember, this is only coverage for the other guy, not your car. My State Farm policy has NO exclusion for liability coverage, (that I could find) so I bought a one million umbrella policy that was dirt cheap, because it gives a discount on our 5 cars and homeowners. This covers legal costs also, which could bankrupt people. Finally, read exclusions under Physical Damage To Covered Auto (your car). This is where most policies clearly exclude track events. State farm has an ironclad exclusion, EVEN EXCLUDING YOUR CAR WHEN PARKED IN THE PARKING LOT FOR SUCH EVENTS. As I recall I decided to never attend an autocross as a spectator and park in the lot for it--there's no coverage for your car. MAKE SURE YOU DON'T READ SOMETHING IN A SUB-SECTION AND THINK IT COVERS THE WHOLE POLICY. As I recall, my brother has Amica, and found no exclusions anywhere. He called his agent to see, who called underwriting, who said they have made a conscious decision to not exclude such events. However, that is a Ct policy, and he better make sure it doesn't change--they have no obligation to call and tell him, it will be in fine print. (what if they mail him an amendment, and the lovely USPS loses it?) There's also the no-fault section, so like the instructor who got hurt badly, my policy has 100k coverage for medical and lost wages, but I have never read those exclusions--which may cover all occupants. All in all, this is a very dangerous arena. In a prior life, I have 20 years experience in insurance claims, and an advanced degree in the stuff, and still don't trust anything. Technically, the law states that any ambiguity in a contract is settled in favor of a layperson, not the sophisticated party who wrote the contract, but in 20 years, I never saw that invoked--they know what they are doing, and it's not unclear to the courts. I cover the Corvette through On Track Insurance, and THINK I am covered for liability through the auto policy. But, state case law could trump what I think I read, or the company could amend the policy any day. You are covered unless the exclusions take it away, but make damn sure. Do your own research and see it in writing, states and jurisdictions are different. When in doubt, call an underwriter and a claim supervisor both. Agents may know but are NOT technicians in insurance claims and contract law, and it can get devilishly technical. Frankly, I won't ask my agent. I didn't insure my new trailer because I don't want him to know. Insurance companies don't like people who drive fast, and calling and confessing track days may cause them to cancel you. Good luck getting insurance after that.

rabrooks

Mine says it doesn't cover damage sustained "on a closed course at race speed". So I bite the bullet and get the track insurance. That adds a sizable percentage to the overall weekend expense. But its the only way my conscience will let me do this. There may be another option that I'm not aware of, like a company offering an addendum for a certain time period.

Feffman

Our experience mirrors this. Most, if not all regular auto policies have a clause or were amended to exclude any coverage on a racing surface.

I've seen cases, albeit several years ago, where the agent got an on-track claim paid but I highly doubt you'll see that again.

Feff

Pacembellum

Definitely a good reason most people track things like c5's or c6 that you can walk away from. Not like someone making payments on a c7.

Nowanker

I just assume the risk myself. I Understand the concept of track day insurance, and I've seen it pay off, but by now I would have paid for 2 or 3 new cars in unused premiums.
"Never take anything to the track that you can't just walk away from."
It would have to suck to keep making payments on a wadded up piece of junk.

rb185afm

Village has a unique set of skills...... which if all goes well, he will never have to explore, with a track involved

village idiot

Unfortunately that skill isn't driving
(turn on volume for full lol effect)

cvp33

Oh ****...huh.

LOL

rb185afm

Hahahaha that was a pretty mild ,”oh ****”. Have to love tracks with safe run off. Don’t try that at Sonoma lol.

Bill Dearborn

Something is screwed up with the video or with YouTube. The sound finished about 10 seconds ahead of the video which decided to pause several times while the sound kept playing. Could hear the off but the stopped video showed the car in the center of the pavement.

Bill

apex26

That happened here too, on a new computer...

93Polo

A friend who was a Viper Tech had a customer/friend who went through the fight. In my opinion your chances of winning are not very good.

http://www.viperclub.org/vca/threads...nsider.549642/