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Here are some photos of the current prototype on my car! There are some difference between the one you see and the final rendition. The prototype has 4 holes in it from a previous test, it does not have the toe bar attachment on it, and the positioning of the ball casters is a little different. But all in all the principle is still there and you can see how they fit! The pictures you see are are also on rough concrete. I wanted to test out the casters in a non-optimal situation to ensure their reliability. On smooth concrete they are as slick as can be
I had someone ask about the position of the toe bar on our website so I will share the answer to the question on here as I'm sure others have wondered as well. His question essentially asked how effective the current placement of the toe bar on the CAD rendering would be.
"The current CAD rendering that is on our website doesn't show it but there will be a set of threaded bolt holes down the hub plate to mount the toe bar at different heights. The height of the toe bar shown in the current rendering is meant to be used when someone is stringing the car, that way it will be at the same height as the wheel hub. There will be two other positions it can mount with one being at the bottom of the hub plate. The one at the bottom will be roughly 8" below the centerline of the wheel to allow for conventional taping between the two front wheels for the toe measurement. Hopefully I cleared that up, if you have any other questions feel free to ask!"
Here are some photos of the current prototype on my car! There are some difference between the one you see and the final rendition. The prototype has 4 holes in it from a previous test, it does not have the toe bar attachment on it, and the positioning of the ball casters is a little different. But all in all the principle is still there and you can see how they fit! The pictures you see are are also on rough concrete. I wanted to test out the casters in a non-optimal situation to ensure their reliability. On smooth concrete they are as slick as can be
CSM Performance LLC
How much shear load can the pivot bolts take? The static load per bolt would be around 450# for a 3600# car. There would also be some dynamic loading while settling the car.
How much shear load can the pivot bolts take? The static load per bolt would be around 450# for a 3600# car. There would also be some dynamic loading while settling the car.
You are correct about dynamic loading when letting the car down on the stands. The pivot pins are rated at 84,000 psi strength in shear. They are 5/16'' pins which correlates to a cross sectional are of 0.0767'' which leads to a single shear (which each pin is in) load rating of ~6400 lbs. Together the pivot pins will take around 12,000 lbs before they shear. The frame itself (aluminum structure) has a safety factor in excess of 6 (To approach yield strength, the safety factor for ultimate tensile strength is over 7.5) (So theoretically the frame could take over 6000 lbs).
Last edited by CSM Performance; 04-29-2018 at 02:34 PM.
Glad to hear it! Once I have everything finalized (hopefully within the next two weeks) I will get the first run into production. The lead time is approximately 4-6 weeks so I will most likely offer a discount if someone wants to pre-order or they can wait until they come in and go with the regular price! Stay Tuned, we're definitely getting close!
I finished up the Toe Bar mounting on the prototype and took some photos! I should be able to have a complete set tested within the next week, once testing is complete I will begin taking pre-orders. The final product will most likely be anodized black. I am currently working with an anodizing shop to get it lined out! I'm adding rare earth magnets to the edges of the toe bars on two of the four hub stands so a tape measure will easily hold to it without falling off. I decided to utilize a variety of heavier duty components throughout (including the ball casters which lead to a higher cost for production). Right now, the retail will be $799.99. If I can get a pre-order of 4 sets I'll offer a $50 discount per set (So $749.99 per set). If I can get a pre-order of 11 sets I will offer a $100 discount per set (so $699.99 per set). If I can get a pre-order even larger than that, then I'll have to call my machine shop and well get a larger discount going !
(P.S. A good camera really shows all of the production scratches).
I finished up the Toe Bar mounting on the prototype and took some photos! I should be able to have a complete set tested within the next week, once testing is complete I will begin taking pre-orders. The final product will most likely be anodized black. I am currently working with an anodizing shop to get it lined out! I'm adding rare earth magnets to the edges of the toe bars on two of the four hub stands so a tape measure will easily hold to it without falling off. I decided to utilize a variety of heavier duty components throughout (including the ball casters which lead to a higher cost for production). Right now, the retail will be $799.99. If I can get a pre-order of 4 sets I'll offer a $50 discount per set (So $749.99 per set). If I can get a pre-order of 11 sets I will offer a $100 discount per set (so $699.99 per set). If I can get a pre-order even larger than that, then I'll have to call my machine shop and well get a larger discount going !
(P.S. A good camera really shows all of the production scratches).
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
C3 of Year Winner (track prepared) 2019
How do you go about getting a stiff suspension to settle completely while on hub stands? I've found that bouncing a suspension on a rack still doesn't quite settle it the same as backing it down the drive and back. I guess if the stands have rollers, ideally it would settle due to no friction like a tire would provide?
Can someone recommend leveling plates /stands that would be used with the hub stands so that you can access the camber plates while setting up the suspension. I do believe that the car will be too low to get under, just being supported by the hub stands. I could be wrong, I have never used any. Thanks
Can someone recommend leveling plates /stands that would be used with the hub stands so that you can access the camber plates while setting up the suspension. I do believe that the car will be too low to get under, just being supported by the hub stands. I could be wrong, I have never used any. Thanks
Stupid question... So the hub mounting plate is hinged and bottom has metal casters that will easily slide on various surfaces? And this is enough to fully settle the suspension?
How do you go about getting a stiff suspension to settle completely while on hub stands? I've found that bouncing a suspension on a rack still doesn't quite settle it the same as backing it down the drive and back. I guess if the stands have rollers, ideally it would settle due to no friction like a tire would provide?
Just curious.
You are correct on the lack of friction that the Hub Stands have compared to that which a tire would present. You can think of your suspension as travelling on an arc (on a standard double A-Arm setup, like the front suspension of our cars). It also travels back a little due to the offset of the A-arms as well (But this isn't a factor because the tire will roll to compensate). So as the suspension travels from weight being put on it the tires push out away from the car. The problem lies that the tire presents a ton of friction (A coefficient that approaches 0.9 on a dry concrete surface) in the direction it wants to push out. (In the case of a car with 1000 lbs on a tire it would theoretically take 900lbs of force to push the tire out). The benefit of rolling the car the back and forth is that it allows the tire to push out as it settles which it cant do when it's stationary. The Hub Stands have ball transfers on the bottom which means that there is an extremely low amount of friction resisting the tire (now Hub Stands when attached) from pushing out and easily following the suspensions movement. So with Hub Stands you will not need to roll your vehicle back and forth. It is a good idea to jounce the suspension a little bit for the initial check and after each change just to ensure it settles completely as there will be resistance in the suspension components. So in summary, the Hub Stands allow the suspension to push the spindle out away from the car as it travels whereas the tire would not unless rolled back and forth.
Stupid question... So the hub mounting plate is hinged and bottom has metal casters that will easily slide on various surfaces? And this is enough to fully settle the suspension?
You got it! The hub mounting plate pivots on two pivot pins and the bottom rolls on ball transfers for a smooth, extremely low friction environment in all directions. It is enough to settle it as it will readily follow the suspension travel (I went into depth on this with the above reply as well).
04-28-2018, 05:06 PM
