Advanced Group Challenges!
05-07-2018, 08:55 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
They aren't late point byes - they are point byes into the corner...LOL. Very common in advanced groups. Different Orgs have different rules: some say no passing in corners, others are pass with point in corner and others are no point by anywhere.
05-07-2018, 10:53 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
Looks to me like a great learning experience. You get the chance to adjust your driving to different corner entries and exits and not always being on the preferred "racing line". Debris on the track happens, offs happen, brake downs happen in any run group. But offs tend to happen more in the intermediate to advanced run groups when people no longer have instructors in the car.
05-07-2018, 11:51 AM
#4
Looks to me like a great learning experience. You get the chance to adjust your driving to different corner entries and exits and not always being on the preferred "racing line". Debris on the track happens, offs happen, brake downs happen in any run group. But offs tend to happen more in the intermediate to advanced run groups when people no longer have instructors in the car.
I was in the group. It was open passing anywhere with a point by. Several cars (red Fiat, white 911, green caymen) were stingy with the point, but generally a good group of drivers.
05-07-2018, 01:57 PM
#7
Drifting
Those drivers were doing what is correct in an advanced level group. Paying attention to their mirrors and giving a point by when faster traffic approaches. As the driver receiving the point by (and doing the passing), it is up to you to decide if you can then safely pass and ultimately if you are going to take the offered point by. So you are passing them, it is up to you to do so in a safe manner. If your decision to proceed with that pass put's you:
a) Off line
b) In what you deem an unsafe track position
or
c) If in your opinion the point by is offered too late in order for you to safely pass the car before a corner.
Then you should not have taken the point by and just waited to do so after the corner. The bottom line is you are the faster car, you are passing them, their responsibility is to offer you a point by and hold their line, you are responsible for getting around them and doing so safely.
If you are running in an advanced level group you should be comfortable passing mid corner let alone taking a point by on a straight away approaching a corner (based on the video quite often before the brake markers even begin). If you are not comfortable doing so then you probably should have done the responsible thing and told the organizers that you were not comfortable driving in that level run group and requested that you be put into a lower level group. Complaining after the fact about what you perceive as others doing something wrong is not the solution, nor does having a faster car automatically mean that you need to be in the fastest run group. Being in an advanced level run group means that you should have an "advanced level" skill set which means that you should have the knowledge to know how to pass someone safely anywhere on the track (and also to know when not to).
a) Off line
b) In what you deem an unsafe track position
or
c) If in your opinion the point by is offered too late in order for you to safely pass the car before a corner.
Then you should not have taken the point by and just waited to do so after the corner. The bottom line is you are the faster car, you are passing them, their responsibility is to offer you a point by and hold their line, you are responsible for getting around them and doing so safely.
If you are running in an advanced level group you should be comfortable passing mid corner let alone taking a point by on a straight away approaching a corner (based on the video quite often before the brake markers even begin). If you are not comfortable doing so then you probably should have done the responsible thing and told the organizers that you were not comfortable driving in that level run group and requested that you be put into a lower level group. Complaining after the fact about what you perceive as others doing something wrong is not the solution, nor does having a faster car automatically mean that you need to be in the fastest run group. Being in an advanced level run group means that you should have an "advanced level" skill set which means that you should have the knowledge to know how to pass someone safely anywhere on the track (and also to know when not to).
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05-07-2018, 02:10 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
^^^ Yes understood. This was not so much complaining, just to make people aware of the differences in Advanced Run Group. I would have run in Intermediate but it was full. It is for sure more intense in Advanced and good for people to understand that.
05-07-2018, 03:59 PM
#9
Those point bys were actually perfect. The fiat guy gave a point by as soon as he could see you coming. You were a mile away!
It's not the point bys that are the problem, its the guys that hound you mid corner and then gun it trying to pass before the corner ends. If you slip a little or brake a little, they will smash into your quarter panel.
There are no medals, no wins during track days. But there is definitely a lot to lose.
It's not the point bys that are the problem, its the guys that hound you mid corner and then gun it trying to pass before the corner ends. If you slip a little or brake a little, they will smash into your quarter panel.
There are no medals, no wins during track days. But there is definitely a lot to lose.
05-07-2018, 07:12 PM
#11
wait, this is an advanced group ?
there is no point by needed in any of advanced groups I've ran with. even with high intermediate group, there is no point by needed on a straight.
here in west coast.
there is no point by needed in any of advanced groups I've ran with. even with high intermediate group, there is no point by needed on a straight.
here in west coast.
Last edited by bellwilliam; 05-10-2018 at 02:50 AM.
05-07-2018, 08:34 PM
#13
Those drivers were doing what is correct in an advanced level group. Paying attention to their mirrors and giving a point by when faster traffic approaches. As the driver receiving the point by (and doing the passing), it is up to you to decide if you can then safely pass and ultimately if you are going to take the offered point by. So you are passing them, it is up to you to do so in a safe manner. If your decision to proceed with that pass put's you:
a) Off line
b) In what you deem an unsafe track position
or
c) If in your opinion the point by is offered too late in order for you to safely pass the car before a corner.
Then you should not have taken the point by and just waited to do so after the corner. The bottom line is you are the faster car, you are passing them, their responsibility is to offer you a point by and hold their line, you are responsible for getting around them and doing so safely.
If you are running in an advanced level group you should be comfortable passing mid corner let alone taking a point by on a straight away approaching a corner (based on the video quite often before the brake markers even begin). If you are not comfortable doing so then you probably should have done the responsible thing and told the organizers that you were not comfortable driving in that level run group and requested that you be put into a lower level group. Complaining after the fact about what you perceive as others doing something wrong is not the solution, nor does having a faster car automatically mean that you need to be in the fastest run group. Being in an advanced level run group means that you should have an "advanced level" skill set which means that you should have the knowledge to know how to pass someone safely anywhere on the track (and also to know when not to).
a) Off line
b) In what you deem an unsafe track position
or
c) If in your opinion the point by is offered too late in order for you to safely pass the car before a corner.
Then you should not have taken the point by and just waited to do so after the corner. The bottom line is you are the faster car, you are passing them, their responsibility is to offer you a point by and hold their line, you are responsible for getting around them and doing so safely.
If you are running in an advanced level group you should be comfortable passing mid corner let alone taking a point by on a straight away approaching a corner (based on the video quite often before the brake markers even begin). If you are not comfortable doing so then you probably should have done the responsible thing and told the organizers that you were not comfortable driving in that level run group and requested that you be put into a lower level group. Complaining after the fact about what you perceive as others doing something wrong is not the solution, nor does having a faster car automatically mean that you need to be in the fastest run group. Being in an advanced level run group means that you should have an "advanced level" skill set which means that you should have the knowledge to know how to pass someone safely anywhere on the track (and also to know when not to).
Some were really good:
Some were not:
The 911 hits its brakes mid turn in, down hill right turn off camber. I'm rolling into the throttle when he parks it right where he should be hitting the gas ( especially in a 911 !) He then points by but swerves towards me at the same time ( you can see my foot go to the brake where I'm normally flat on the floor by then). At the end he gets pissed and shoves his hand out the window several times in anger because I guess he expected me to pass in the grass?? You can hear my reaction on the video.
The car was quick, the driver was not. I’ve got 2 laps of footage where he babies the corners and drags all the straights. It was the third time he slammed on the brakes unexpectedly , gives a point by after I run up his a** then goes full throttle as I try to come around.
I want to be out there at speed with people who are doing the right things at the right places at the right times, and are comfortable with a pass in a corner or coming into one without having an attitude.
C7s your driving looked safe and smooth so this isn't pointed at you,. but this is an excellent example as to why you should not self promote into faster groups.
Last edited by duk007; 05-07-2018 at 09:02 PM.
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jloZ06 (05-07-2018)
05-07-2018, 11:16 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
I often prefer to be passed in a corner; I have to slow down there anyway. And in an advance group, I expect anyone capable of passing me to be comfortable doing it off line anywhere. At a curve I usually place the pass to occur at corner entry which I approach on line; however I will slow to allow the pass and yield the preferred line through the corner. I take a late apex, and everyone is happy.
One constructive suggestion: do not cross the blend line. Especially in an advanced run group. Many tracks will black flag that.
One constructive suggestion: do not cross the blend line. Especially in an advanced run group. Many tracks will black flag that.
Last edited by emptnest; 05-07-2018 at 11:32 PM.
05-07-2018, 11:36 PM
#15
** I don't know of the driver, just something I searched for our local HPDE **
Last edited by bellwilliam; 05-08-2018 at 01:37 PM.
05-08-2018, 12:19 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
At minute 2:35 he could have kept in on the track if he just leaned into the turn more.
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bellwilliam (05-08-2018)
05-08-2018, 10:43 AM
#18
why? you're telling me you always hone full harness, hans device and fire suit every time you go to the track? That's absurd.
05-08-2018, 10:46 AM
#19
05-08-2018, 11:47 AM
#20
Your right, i forgot that no accidents, fires, equipment failurs occur in HPDE events. To answer your question, yes. But its your life do what you want.