GoatHead

I am looking for HPDEs at VIR next Spring/summer. TrackDaze is $375, but only 3 sessions per day for Green group, too little time. Chin is 4 sessions (per last year sched.), but is it $700 for Green.

TrackDaze include 2-hours open track each day, but I don't think they allow Green to participate.

I attended with PCA last fall, but they don't have anything scheduled yet. Also, I looked around for BMW club, and nothing. My local corvette clubs don't do HPDEs (just coffees and cruises).

What do you guys think of both organizations and cost to value? other recommendations?

Bill Dearborn

Tarheel Chapter BMW CCA has the following events scheduled but they don't show on the Motorsportsreg web site yet. Registration will be open 9-10 weeks ahead of each event:
Tarheel 2019 Track Events

March 29-31 VIR Full Course
June 14-16 VIR North Course
September 27-29 VIR Full Course
http://www.tarheelbmwcca.org/track.html
Bill

2500 hd

Thanks Bill...

GoatHead

Thanks Bill

nethole

likely haven't been posted yet, but THSSC (tarheel sports car club), not the BMW club, will also likely have their VIR event in feb next year

A good group of instructors in that group


https://www.thscc.com/

dmichaels

Worth noting, Track Daze typically does a 2 day event in November at VIR where day 1 is the full course, and day 2 is the Grand Course (Car and Driver Lightning Lap layout).

The Grand Course is one of my favorite layouts out of all tracks I've driven. It's sort of like they combined Palmer in MA with Watkins Glen... very cool event. Plus November in Virginia isn't so toasty

I'm planning to get there again in 2019 with my new-to-me C5Z

Dan H.

I'm a big fan of Chin for DE events. My buddies and I have gone to VIR in October for 3 years now with Chin. You may only see 4 run groups, but that is really misleading (I just looked at the last event agenda because I thought 4 was wrong). Heres why I love the Chin format, in addition to the 4 run groups (30-40minutes per) they have
1. A 30 minute warmup session in the morning. Great for warming up your gear, get your rythem back for the lap, and have a warmup prior to going hot in your first at speed session
2. The happy hour at the end of the day is an hour long, all run groups on track at the same time. Not all go out for this and all stay out the entire time. Its a great way to close out the day and to be on track with some real hot rods
3. They limit registration, compare a PCA event entry list and a chin entry list, it must be at least half.
4. I burn twice the gas per day at a Chin event than any other group, they are worth the premium price.

If I'm going to tow 8 hours to get somewhere, it needs to be worth it! VIR is a long pull for me so I do go frequently or with other groups.

I've been told one of the Audi groups puts on a great event there also, I don't recall which one. I'm sure someone will chime in with it.

GoatHead

Do they allow Green to participate in the open track hour?

During my event with PCA, there were 140 participants approx. About 35 in the Green group "The only thing that matters to me while on the track". I was on the waiting list for Chin, and they kept on increasing the number of participants. Initially, they published that maximum is 100, then 110, then 125. From the roaster, there were more than 140 participants. I was checking the website every day for a month waiting for an opening. So, the number of participants was not much different from PCA.

Dan H.

Yes, green is allowed and encouraged to run in happy hour. They mark your back window with 2 X's so that others know your skill level and how to behave around you. For Chin green group, you MUST be online when registration opens. For popular tracks it sells out in minutes. It sells out because VIR for example was limited to 15 drivers. Green group shares the track with Yellow group which had 25 drivers, yellow is solo novice/intermediate. VIR is a long lap so your traffic should be too bad.

Most of the roster # increasing at the last event appeared to be Advanced and Instructors signing up.

You will literally run 33% more laps per day than a PCA event at a Chin event. Don't get me wrong, I run a couple PCA events a year also. For events where I want to get the most out of it (long tows, hotels, fuel, time away from home) I go with Chin.

fore

^ +1 for Chin

GoatHead

That is great. Thanks.

Mordeth

Another vote for CHIN. I instruct, race and practice with a number of groups in the Northeast including CHIN, and other than NASA, CHIN is my favorite. TONS of track time (even for instructors). Additionally, CHIN treats drivers with FAR more respect than most other groups. You are not treated as a baby or a little kid, but rather a grown adult making a conscious decision to put you and your car onto a race track in the safest way they know. Their advanced group is in part comprised of actual racers, who sometimes bring their teams there to practice. They enforce a rule of "no impeding" in advanced groups, which I appreciate and which draws actual racers to participate and instruct with them in addition to regular HPDE instructors. So you get a broader range of skill and learning that is available. This is not to say that every racer is also a good instructor, but rather that you get different points of view and techniques.

PCA also has a great program. I'm a National Instructor with them and almost always get the "Vette" student (which is great for me). They will slow down advancement to allow more learning, and their program is more rigorous, defined and organized. But the Porsche guys LOVE the track (unlike most Vette clubs) and I also find many racers there as well. I don't even own a Porsche, yet I feel very much at home with all of the Porsche clubs that come to Watkins Glen as they share the same mentality as me (our cars were purpose built by God himself to be on a race track so let's learn how to do it).

RapidC84B

I run and instruct with NASA Mid-Atlantic. Check 'em out. There are 4 VIR events a year. (March, May, August, October). Everything from HPDE to time trials to full racing.

www.nasaracing.net

bigmackloud

I really enjoy TrackDaze events. I really like their open track events, but I'm not in the green group so I get to partake in the extra track time.

I also ran with THSCC (Tarheel Sports Car Club) back when I was a green student. To me, they had the best instruction program for green drivers. One session we did passing drills with a partner... between every corner you leap-frogged each other. At first I thought this was just going to be a waste of a session. In the end, it was a blast, and significantly improved my ability to pass in tight areas. The entire group improved at passing and it helped eliminate the "trains" that form behind slower drivers. We also took a session and ran the entire track two cars wide (again with your buddy car). It teaches you spacial awareness and how to run the track "off-line." Again, I found it incredibly beneficial.

Poor-sha

I've run and instructed with a lot of groups and I'll be honest that I don't remember TrackDaze only having 3 sessions/day for green group (I am usually in the right seat). However, they do tend to adjust the schedule based on the number of people that register in the various run groups and late in the year daylight limits the number of hours the track is hot. In general they have been one of my "go to" groups in that they treat the attendees and coaches well, try to hold to a time certain schedule, and are well run. My only complaint is that some events (like VIR last month) can be oversubscribed but that seems to be more of an issue in the higher run groups than the lower.

My favorite group by far is Hooked On Driving NE. They are very customer-centric in their approach, limit attendees to keep car counts from getting out of hand, and do a lot to make the events fun off track as well as on (cookouts, paid for power and camping at VIR, etc.). Unfortunately they don't run VIR much but did this past Fall.

PCA it depends a lot on the chapter. PCA Potomac I felt to be overbearing and what I like to call "process heavy". This really heavy process/rules mentality seems to be common with most PCA chapter but I've found RTR and Schattenbaum (?) to be good to run with. PCA national tends to offset the costs of DEs so that's why the events are always a good bit cheaper. Also, as a general rule I don't do DEs that are on race weekends any more. This goes for SCCA, NASA, and PCA. When something goes wrong that cuts in to the schedule (and it always does), the DE is always the first thing to get cut short. You also tend to have huge time blocks of nothing during the day.

Audi Potomac Chesapeake Chapter (PCC) is another of my favorites with well run events, a good balance of rules to fun, and solid track time. Their Spring VIR event has become a solo driver only thing though so that won't work for you at this point.

Chin I've run with and I like but I find them to be on the process heavy side of things. It's not quite as fun and customer centric as some of the other groups but they are a very well run organization. Think military efficiency rather than silicon valley.

Finally, there is NCM who does an event at VIR every June. They put on well run events and it's a great group of people but again I've found their events to be pretty crowded with a lot of people that only come to VIR once a year. In the end though this hobby for me has become as much about the camaraderie and hanging out with old friends as it is about driving on track. I go to the NCM VIR event primarily to see those people I only see once a year.

GoatHead

I just received an email fromTHSCC. Registration is opened for Feb 23-24. Anyone is going? Anyone been at VIR inFebruary? How was the experience? I am afraid it will be still too cold to be there on summer tires. If it snows in Raleigh, I won't be able to leave my garage.

nethole

last year was nearly 70 degrees and pleasant. Years past, not so much . . .

RapidC84B

davidfarmer

BMWCCA and PCA have great curriculum if you want to actually learn outside of the car. THSCC is a good great, and as said, weather can be great, but we have been forced out due to snow at a few events. THSCC runs a lot like a BMW/PCA event.

NASA DE isn't great, but lots of entertainment with the race cars.