C7: How do you tell when ESC kicks in during track mode
12-05-2019, 08:54 AM
#1
C7: How do you tell when ESC kicks in during track mode
I drive in Track mode Sport 1. I was wondering how you can tell when the ESC activates.
I can tell when I make a big mistake, start sliding, and the car instantly jerks back into line that the ESC activated and the ESC light flashes briefly.
But there are other times when I sense just a slight slide starting, I immediately countersteer and get the car back in line. The ESC does not flash, but I wonder was that me or the ESC saving the car again.
I can tell when I make a big mistake, start sliding, and the car instantly jerks back into line that the ESC activated and the ESC light flashes briefly.
But there are other times when I sense just a slight slide starting, I immediately countersteer and get the car back in line. The ESC does not flash, but I wonder was that me or the ESC saving the car again.
12-05-2019, 11:59 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
You're probably asking in real time, which there's no comptuer feedback to tell you if that happened I believe.
However you can see in the PDR file if you log the Vehicle Stability Active channel in a time/distance chart, when and where it was activated and how much based on the duration/counts.
Be aware that the Traction Control Active channel does not cover PTM events, only traction control in non-PTM modes.
However you can see in the PDR file if you log the Vehicle Stability Active channel in a time/distance chart, when and where it was activated and how much based on the duration/counts.
Be aware that the Traction Control Active channel does not cover PTM events, only traction control in non-PTM modes.
12-05-2019, 01:14 PM
#3
Safety Car
That is a hard one to tell, usually it will activate the rear brake on one side. it feels a bit like a weak rumble strip 
and first happens when the car thinks you do not have proper control 
if you do it is a bad thing! if you don't it is good.
more seat time is the best cure
and first happens when the car thinks you do not have proper control if you do it is a bad thing! if you don't it is good.
more seat time is the best cure
12-05-2019, 01:38 PM
#4
You're probably asking in real time, which there's no comptuer feedback to tell you if that happened I believe.
However you can see in the PDR file if you log the Vehicle Stability Active channel in a time/distance chart, when and where it was activated and how much based on the duration/counts.
Be aware that the Traction Control Active channel does not cover PTM events, only traction control in non-PTM modes.
However you can see in the PDR file if you log the Vehicle Stability Active channel in a time/distance chart, when and where it was activated and how much based on the duration/counts.
Be aware that the Traction Control Active channel does not cover PTM events, only traction control in non-PTM modes.
12-05-2019, 01:46 PM
#5
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,123
Received 8,958 Likes
on
5,346 Posts
You have to download the Pi Tool Box: https://www.cosworth.com/products/toolbox/?cat=software . Pi Tool Box Lite is the free version. The non free version runs at least $1500. I believe Poor-Sha uses the Pro version which permits the comparison of more than one variable at a time.
User instructions are terrible and I used Poor-Sha's posts to figure out how to use the software.
Bill
User instructions are terrible and I used Poor-Sha's posts to figure out how to use the software.
Bill
The following users liked this post:
putnam17 (12-05-2019)
12-05-2019, 02:44 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
As Bill said, you need to use Pi Toolbox Lite. Search for HiPo Driver on Youtube and that's @Poor-sha 's channel. That will get you going.
From there, you would add the session, add a Time/Distance chart. I usually add the speed channel as that helps me know where I am on track and then you can also add the stability channel and you'll see where/if it kicked in.
You can add multiple channels with the Lite version. It does limit how many worksheets and components you can add along with some additional advanced features that would be really nice like import/export of data/channels in a generic format.
From there, you would add the session, add a Time/Distance chart. I usually add the speed channel as that helps me know where I am on track and then you can also add the stability channel and you'll see where/if it kicked in.
You can add multiple channels with the Lite version. It does limit how many worksheets and components you can add along with some additional advanced features that would be really nice like import/export of data/channels in a generic format.
The following users liked this post:
putnam17 (12-05-2019)
12-05-2019, 02:57 PM
#7
There are also Pi workbooks and track maps that will help get you started under the resource section on www.hipodriver.com. I need to get back to making videos again and this might be a good place to start. I also need to upload the newer workbooks to the site.
I'll also note that even with everything off the car will sometimes do things that you might think are AH. For instance, I've had the car slide and then quickly grab even with everything off.
I'll also note that even with everything off the car will sometimes do things that you might think are AH. For instance, I've had the car slide and then quickly grab even with everything off.
The following users liked this post:
putnam17 (12-05-2019)
12-06-2019, 06:22 PM
#8
Drifting
Member Since: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,267
Received 310 Likes
on
213 Posts
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
C7 of Year Winner (track prepared) 2019
More than likely PTM is keeping the slides from happening in the first place by modulating throttle regardless of throttle position. It meters in throttle and in sport 1 also manages the brakes. You can hear the car bog while it's doing this. If you have an aftermarket exhaust it's a lot more apparent.
You won't see the TC/AH lights flash 90% of the time in these scenarios.
Some on here disagree with me about PTM, I personally think it's a straight up hunk of **** for anything more than being a DE casual.
I will say that if you're unsure whether or not the car is helping... keep letting the car help.
ETA: I'll say that some others have expressed that their PTM behaves differently than mine based on their descriptions, I see mine as horribly intrusive, this could be driving style or my PTM behaves differently due to tire diameter, lack of TPMS or a myriad of others reasons. So I can't say that PTM suck as gospel. Just that I don't like it based on what I've experienced on my car.
You won't see the TC/AH lights flash 90% of the time in these scenarios.
Some on here disagree with me about PTM, I personally think it's a straight up hunk of **** for anything more than being a DE casual.
I will say that if you're unsure whether or not the car is helping... keep letting the car help.
ETA: I'll say that some others have expressed that their PTM behaves differently than mine based on their descriptions, I see mine as horribly intrusive, this could be driving style or my PTM behaves differently due to tire diameter, lack of TPMS or a myriad of others reasons. So I can't say that PTM suck as gospel. Just that I don't like it based on what I've experienced on my car.
Last edited by lobsterroboto; 12-06-2019 at 07:30 PM.
12-06-2019, 07:42 PM
#9
More than likely PTM is keeping the slides from happening in the first place by modulating throttle regardless of throttle position. It meters in throttle and in sport 1 also manages the brakes. You can hear the car bog while it's doing this. If you have an aftermarket exhaust it's a lot more apparent.
You won't see the TC/AH lights flash 90% of the time in these scenarios.
Some on here disagree with me about PTM, I personally think it's a straight up hunk of **** for anything more than being a DE casual.
I will say that if you're unsure whether or not the car is helping... keep letting the car help.
ETA: I'll say that some others have expressed that their PTM behaves differently than mine based on their descriptions, I see mine as horribly intrusive, this could be driving style or my PTM behaves differently due to tire diameter, lack of TPMS or a myriad of others reasons. So I can't say that PTM suck as gospel. Just that I don't like it based on what I've experienced on my car.
You won't see the TC/AH lights flash 90% of the time in these scenarios.
Some on here disagree with me about PTM, I personally think it's a straight up hunk of **** for anything more than being a DE casual.
I will say that if you're unsure whether or not the car is helping... keep letting the car help.
ETA: I'll say that some others have expressed that their PTM behaves differently than mine based on their descriptions, I see mine as horribly intrusive, this could be driving style or my PTM behaves differently due to tire diameter, lack of TPMS or a myriad of others reasons. So I can't say that PTM suck as gospel. Just that I don't like it based on what I've experienced on my car.
At TMS infield I couldn't turn at all without full off.
At COTA I run race and it's plenty generous.
At MSR I run race and it only kicks in on the two uphill hairpins. I use it to keep from burning up my tires.
i am about to run ECR new surface this Sunday and I'll see how it likes it. But it's a very "flowy" track. I doubt I'll have it kicking on often. It seems to only do it on sharp apexes otherwise it's very generous with letting the rear slide out mid corner.
OP , put your exhaust on track mode, open your ears, theres no way you're not hearing the bogging sound or feeling loss of power. It's pretty obvious. If you're not, then you're not at the level to turn it up to sport 2 or race yet.
See 1:07 below. Really obvious!
Last edited by BrunoTheMellow; 12-06-2019 at 07:48 PM.
12-06-2019, 08:32 PM
#10
Drifting
Member Since: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,267
Received 310 Likes
on
213 Posts
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
C7 of Year Winner (track prepared) 2019
Tires make a difference but Track surface is by far the biggest factor I've learned.
At TMS infield I couldn't turn at all without full off.
At COTA I run race and it's plenty generous.
At MSR I run race and it only kicks in on the two uphill hairpins. I use it to keep from burning up my tires.
i am about to run ECR new surface this Sunday and I'll see how it likes it. But it's a very "flowy" track. I doubt I'll have it kicking on often. It seems to only do it on sharp apexes otherwise it's very generous with letting the rear slide out mid corner.
OP , put your exhaust on track mode, open your ears, theres no way you're not hearing the bogging sound or feeling loss of power. It's pretty obvious. If you're not, then you're not at the level to turn it up to sport 2 or race yet.
See 1:07 below. Really obvious!
https://youtu.be/GLznRbM6zHs
At TMS infield I couldn't turn at all without full off.
At COTA I run race and it's plenty generous.
At MSR I run race and it only kicks in on the two uphill hairpins. I use it to keep from burning up my tires.
i am about to run ECR new surface this Sunday and I'll see how it likes it. But it's a very "flowy" track. I doubt I'll have it kicking on often. It seems to only do it on sharp apexes otherwise it's very generous with letting the rear slide out mid corner.
OP , put your exhaust on track mode, open your ears, theres no way you're not hearing the bogging sound or feeling loss of power. It's pretty obvious. If you're not, then you're not at the level to turn it up to sport 2 or race yet.
See 1:07 below. Really obvious!
https://youtu.be/GLznRbM6zHs
I've ran with and without at COTA, 2:24.9 without 2:25.4 with. on sticker R7's On scrubs with I've ran 2:27 with and 2:25.6 without.
But yah track surface and tire are gonna have a big impact on how PTM is doing its thing. I don't want to sound like im tooting my horn here, but at a certain point it's just going to be a hinderance regardless of tire or track. Imo if it's not holding you back 100% of the time you have more time to find.
btw, good lap btw for your first time at COTA.
you can be a lot faster in T2 and get closer to the curbing like at minimum 2 in the red paint if you're entirely between the white lines you can easily add another couple mph at the apex but some orgs don't like that. you can be literally 10mph faster at the apex ( don't hesitate at 3/4 throttle you seem to do this a lot, don't brake before T7 (if you go full throttle between 6 & 7 you may have to brush the brakes you're going 70mph, the car will do 80+, don't lift for T10 at all, T17 MOAR POWAH 10 - 15mph faster before making it to the apex T8 go to 100% throttle sooner, T19 straddle the sausage and speed up! you're going 56mph the car should be closer to 70 You got a 2:20 in that car as it sits.
I'm not comparing what my car can do vs your car. I just know what a GS & Z06 can do mid corner on cup 2's hoosiers and Pirellis and I know what a completely stock Z51 on PSS and pirellis can do.
do you run aim @BrunoTheMellow ?
or just the PDR?
Car sounds good btw. you should come to NASA events, hell next season we're going to MSRC, ECR, TMS all in a row im just gonna keep my car in Ft Worth for like 3 months.
Last edited by lobsterroboto; 12-06-2019 at 08:33 PM.
12-06-2019, 08:39 PM
#11
TMS infield I've done 37.6 without it on Toyo RR's, I didn't even bother with it. On the full ROVAL I went out in warmup with PTM and it was so bad on the banking that I turned it off mid corner.
I've ran with and without at COTA, 2:24.9 without 2:25.4 with. on sticker R7's On scrubs with I've ran 2:27 with and 2:25.6 without.
But yah track surface and tire are gonna have a big impact on how PTM is doing its thing. I don't want to sound like im tooting my horn here, but at a certain point it's just going to be a hinderance regardless of tire or track. Imo if it's not holding you back 100% of the time you have more time to find.
btw, good lap btw for your first time at COTA.
you can be a lot faster in T2 and get closer to the curbing like at minimum 2 in the red paint if you're entirely between the white lines you can easily add another couple mph at the apex but some orgs don't like that. you can be literally 10mph faster at the apex ( don't hesitate at 3/4 throttle you seem to do this a lot, don't brake before T7 (if you go full throttle between 6 & 7 you may have to brush the brakes you're going 70mph, the car will do 80+, don't lift for T10 at all, T17 MOAR POWAH 10 - 15mph faster before making it to the apex T8 go to 100% throttle sooner, T19 straddle the sausage and speed up! you're going 56mph the car should be closer to 70 You got a 2:20 in that car as it sits.
I'm not comparing what my car can do vs your car. I just know what a GS & Z06 can do mid corner on cup 2's hoosiers and Pirellis and I know what a completely stock Z51 on PSS and pirellis can do.
do you run aim @BrunoTheMellow ?
or just the PDR?
Car sounds good btw. you should come to NASA events, hell next season we're going to MSRC, ECR, TMS all in a row im just gonna keep my car in Ft Worth for like 3 months.
I've ran with and without at COTA, 2:24.9 without 2:25.4 with. on sticker R7's On scrubs with I've ran 2:27 with and 2:25.6 without.
But yah track surface and tire are gonna have a big impact on how PTM is doing its thing. I don't want to sound like im tooting my horn here, but at a certain point it's just going to be a hinderance regardless of tire or track. Imo if it's not holding you back 100% of the time you have more time to find.
btw, good lap btw for your first time at COTA.
you can be a lot faster in T2 and get closer to the curbing like at minimum 2 in the red paint if you're entirely between the white lines you can easily add another couple mph at the apex but some orgs don't like that. you can be literally 10mph faster at the apex ( don't hesitate at 3/4 throttle you seem to do this a lot, don't brake before T7 (if you go full throttle between 6 & 7 you may have to brush the brakes you're going 70mph, the car will do 80+, don't lift for T10 at all, T17 MOAR POWAH 10 - 15mph faster before making it to the apex T8 go to 100% throttle sooner, T19 straddle the sausage and speed up! you're going 56mph the car should be closer to 70 You got a 2:20 in that car as it sits.
I'm not comparing what my car can do vs your car. I just know what a GS & Z06 can do mid corner on cup 2's hoosiers and Pirellis and I know what a completely stock Z51 on PSS and pirellis can do.
do you run aim @BrunoTheMellow ?
or just the PDR?
Car sounds good btw. you should come to NASA events, hell next season we're going to MSRC, ECR, TMS all in a row im just gonna keep my car in Ft Worth for like 3 months.
I kept the car in 2nd during T2 that lap. That's how many mistakes I made.
just PDR. Let me post some of my other laps later.
Line is much better although grip sucks
12-06-2019, 08:54 PM
#12
Drifting
Member Since: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,267
Received 310 Likes
on
213 Posts
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
C7 of Year Winner (track prepared) 2019
oh dude yeah. That was my first session on that track of a 2 day event except the rest of the event the tires were done for. I could hardly break 2:30 the next 2 sessions. I eventually got down to a 2;27.0 at the end of the second day on corded rears.
I kept the car in 2nd during T2 that lap. That's how many mistakes I made.
just PDR. Let me post some of my other laps later.
Line is much better although grip sucks
I kept the car in 2nd during T2 that lap. That's how many mistakes I made.
just PDR. Let me post some of my other laps later.
Line is much better although grip sucks
also I really want Z06 gearing lol.
COTA seems to be really rewarding with small line improvements, I'm still finding faster ways around every time I go.
12-06-2019, 10:53 PM
#13
I am pretty sure the OP was asking about AH/stability control not PTM.
12-06-2019, 11:14 PM
#14
Drifting
Member Since: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,267
Received 310 Likes
on
213 Posts
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
C7 of Year Winner (track prepared) 2019
It's very much a question of PTM, as PTM isn't a "thing" so much different settings for TC/AH you know this already. PTM can't save anyone as its just settings for things that can.
While in PTM the dash lights are less chatty when TC/AH is firing so PTM is very much something to discuss.
While not in PTM it would be rare for the dash lights to not fire fwiw and the Op would effectively know just by looking at his dash what's happening. The threshold for intrusion for both these systems are manipulated at every level of PTM.
12-07-2019, 03:26 AM
#15
With my C5, if I don't shut off Active Handling, I can feel a vibration in the brake pedal when I trail-brake. It's similar to the way ABS feels when it's trying to avert lockup, but it's not as pronounced.
The first day I brought it to the track, it took me a lap or two to distinguish it from regular ABS. But it kicks in after I've started easing up on the brakes, and it's not as strong as regular ABS, so now that combination has just become an immediate reminder that I've forgotten to turn it off again.
Not sure if the newer cars do the same thing but it's something to keep an eye out for.
The first day I brought it to the track, it took me a lap or two to distinguish it from regular ABS. But it kicks in after I've started easing up on the brakes, and it's not as strong as regular ABS, so now that combination has just become an immediate reminder that I've forgotten to turn it off again.
Not sure if the newer cars do the same thing but it's something to keep an eye out for.
12-09-2019, 02:38 AM
#16
Melting Slicks
So I just did a rainy track day. When you start to slide in trail braking or a non accelerating turn in PTM wet it tries to correct you by applying brakes. It doesnt Make much noise, now once In this slide you have to straighten it out before applying the gas otherwise it does the BLAT BLAT BLAT sounds until you do. It won’t just let you drift out of it.