When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
What to do with Summer/Race Tires during the 'Winter' ?
I'm wondering about this, I'm in Central NC, where temps can reach below freezing lots during the winter (not to mention very cool months on the edge of winter). I've read [mostly on tire descriptions on TireRack] that Summer/Extreme tires (my target implementation) are not to be driven, stored, or worked on, at or near freezing temperatures..
However, at some point (hopefully this year) I'll be competing in SCCA Autocross at my local region, in the CAM-S class, where tires are limited to 200+ tw. I.e. extreme performance summer tires. I want to have a competitive advantage, so I want to eventually move to these types of tires.
How to handle this? Should I factor in buying a new set at the beginning of the season, then throwing them out at the end of the season, so they don't have to survive winter? What do you guys do who live in these kinds of temperatures, where the tire has life left, but it is the end of the season?
Unfortunately my garage is not heated, nor do I have plans to add heating..
One of the performance tire manufacturers had listed to do not let the tires get below 15 deg F or the 200 tire would be subject to failures like spitting open. When GM was testing the C7 tires for cold weather they had a semi loaded and sent for a UP Michigan/Minesota testing run. As I was told it was to start at Houghton MI. Unfortunately it went below 0 and in the morning all the Sport Cup 2 tires were both flat and split.
I too keep mine in the basement in large garbage bags during the winter. Are you married? If not, you could always use the living room! hahaha
Lol, while I like the thought of checking out my race rubber during the winter, the other members of the household would not like this..
Originally Posted by DaOtherOne
Rent a small storage space for the 3 months you need it.
This is a good idea - I can easily handle the logistics of renting a van at the beginning and end of winter to transport, and might even rent it all year to store my all season tires during the racing season, as we have very limited space at the house.
One of the performance tire manufacturers had listed to do not let the tires get below 15 deg F or the 200 tire would be subject to failures like spitting open. When GM was testing the C7 tires for cold weather they had a semi loaded and sent for a UP Michigan/Minesota testing run. As I was told it was to start at Houghton MI. Unfortunately it went below 0 and in the morning all the Sport Cup 2 tires were both flat and split.
Oh man yeah, that scares me...I wouldn't want to risk compromising the integrity of the tire, not for the faint of heart..
When I lived in Up State NY I regularly stored my tires in my outdoor shed during the winter. Sometimes nightly temps would drop to 10 degrees below zero F and the tires didn't seem to suffer any damage from the cold.
Think about where some of the tires are actually manufactured and where they are stored when waiting to be sold. Hoosier tires are made in Indiana and the plant location has seen some below zero temperatures over the winter. Do they shut down manufacturing for the winter? NO. Do they ship tires in non conditioned trailers that probably see temps that go below zero F when on the road or parked in a parking lot? Yes.
Where do the retailers and wholesalers store the tires while they are waiting to be installed on a Customer's car or shipped to a Customer? For a lot of tire dealers in the Northern part of the country the tires are stored in unheated warehouses where over night temps inside the buildings can easily drop into the teens.
If you are really going to be kicking butt and taking names in AX (based on your other thread) then you'll be going through tires like crazy anyway. Am I being a wise a$$? Sure, to some extent...but truth: if you are at the top of your game and using ALL of your tires...then you will be going through tires on a very quick basis...tires are a consumable, don't get attached to tires...think of them as a condom...you go, go, go, go...and then proof...time for another.....so no need to worry about it...run a set of all weather tires in the winter...come spring time, put on a new set of race tires. I'm fortunate that my race tires that are unused from winter racing in Florida get to live in the climate-controlled garage mahal during our pretty mild winters here in Texas...I've raced right at 32/33 degrees in the freezing rain...that sucks. So...always better to have MORE tires than not enough. You're not married to tires...get used to changing them. For what I do, racing, it's a few sets a weekend, part of it.
When I lived in Up State NY I regularly stored my tires in my outdoor shed during the winter. Sometimes nightly temps would drop to 10 degrees below zero F and the tires didn't seem to suffer any damage from the cold.
Think about where some of the tires are actually manufactured and where they are stored when waiting to be sold. Hoosier tires are made in Indiana and the plant location has seen some below zero temperatures over the winter. Do they shut down manufacturing for the winter? NO. Do they ship tires in non conditioned trailers that probably see temps that go below zero F when on the road or parked in a parking lot? Yes.
Where do the retailers and wholesalers store the tires while they are waiting to be installed on a Customer's car or shipped to a Customer? For a lot of tire dealers in the Northern part of the country the tires are stored in unheated warehouses where over night temps inside the buildings can easily drop into the teens.
Bill
Bill: just a counterpoint / my experience - my TA2 car and team are based in MN, where it gets stupid cold. We kicked off our season in sunny Florida the first two weeks of January (Homestead and Sebring). So, the transporter brought the cars, tires, etc. down for the races...the transporter is not heated while in motion (at least two days of driving), the shop, of course, is heated...we experienced some cracks on our Pirelli TA2 spec slicks...they looked like freezing cracks - the curious part though - these were *only* on the front right tires, no where else - this is the tire that is getting the most abuse around the banking of Homestead, it's a pretty sharp radius...these were deep cracks...as in - stick a screw driver into it...the US distributor of Pirelli tires (Frisby) made it right, however, could've been bad...we switched to locally sourced Hoosier Radials for Sebring. For the COTA race in February we had Frisby ship the Pirellis straight from their Atlanta warehouse to COTA. So, take that for what it is. First time I've had racing tires crack on me. As a general rule, racing tires / super soft tires do NOT like freezing temps or below.
If you are really going to be kicking butt and taking names in AX (based on your other thread) then you'll be going through tires like crazy anyway. Am I being a wise a$$? Sure, to some extent...but truth: if you are at the top of your game and using ALL of your tires...then you will be going through tires on a very quick basis...tires are a consumable, don't get attached to tires...think of them as a condom...you go, go, go, go...and then proof...time for another.....so no need to worry about it...run a set of all weather tires in the winter...come spring time, put on a new set of race tires. I'm fortunate that my race tires that are unused from winter racing in Florida get to live in the climate-controlled garage mahal during our pretty mild winters here in Texas...I've raced right at 32/33 degrees in the freezing rain...that sucks. So...always better to have MORE tires than not enough. You're not married to tires...get used to changing them. For what I do, racing, it's a few sets a weekend, part of it.
Interesting perspective, as tires consumable. I mentioned this originally, throwing out the current set at the end of the season, depending on couple of factors. First, how many tires am I going to go through during the season, second, what's the cost of the tires, can afford to throw away tires with life left at the end of the season.
I'm not going to be totally crunched for funds, so I might indeed consider them as seasonal consumable.
As far as how many during the season, for cost perspective, I have no idea, I have to see how Rivals wear during Regional AX, and / or if they are also well for HPDE...I plan to drive them to the track, use them at the track, then drive them back.
Originally Posted by smitty2919
Do you have a basement? If so stick them down there. Regardless of a heated basement or not, I doubt a basement will reach freezing temps.
My 200TW sit stacked in my basement non-bagged all winter. However I'm not "top of class" approach either.
I do indeed have a large basement, with room to spare. However, I worry about the integrity of the tire, as we had this past winter several days in a row of 20's overnight, and fear the basement would be at or near freezing.
It's not about [necessarily] top of class implementation, rather safety of the situation, as well as convenience, since I'll be driving them back and forth from the track. The last thing I need is the tires lose pressure / somehow fail hours from home..
When I lived in Up State NY I regularly stored my tires in my outdoor shed during the winter. Sometimes nightly temps would drop to 10 degrees below zero F and the tires didn't seem to suffer any damage from the cold.
Think about where some of the tires are actually manufactured and where they are stored when waiting to be sold. Hoosier tires are made in Indiana and the plant location has seen some below zero temperatures over the winter. Do they shut down manufacturing for the winter? NO. Do they ship tires in non conditioned trailers that probably see temps that go below zero F when on the road or parked in a parking lot? Yes.
Where do the retailers and wholesalers store the tires while they are waiting to be installed on a Customer's car or shipped to a Customer? For a lot of tire dealers in the Northern part of the country the tires are stored in unheated warehouses where over night temps inside the buildings can easily drop into the teens.
Bill
Yes, I wonder about this. I have feedback (in other threads) that *storing* them near freezing temps is common, and just have to let them warm up subsequently. But I have no data to back this up.
From TireRack
However, like all Extreme Performance Summer tires, it is not intended to be serviced, stored nor driven in near- and below-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.
Then at the end of the description they go on to say
Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels, or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.
Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Extreme Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. While compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced.
I worry about this, why would they say any of this, if not a concern ??? Also this is counter intuitive - they say no freezing temps, then comment about exposing them to freezing temps...potentially, one of those "Manufacturer recommendation, to be taken with a grain of salt". Unfortunately I don't have an answer.
I think you are away over thinking this. It is a tire. It is replaced regularly if you are using it on a race track. Just like Captain Buddha, I go through two sets a weekend. I store some of my low heat cycle scrubs for practice or to literally give away to my buddies. So store them (not a big deal) or just toss them (not a big deal) if they are used up and then put new ones on in the spring. That's it.
I had some Hoosier R7s that were delivered to me last year. They arrived a day earlier than expected and left outdoors in 0 degree temp while I was at work. They sat there for 10 hours. I brought them in, let them warm up to room temperature before mounting and then used them to win a race two weeks later. No issues. I wouldn't intentionally leave them outdoors indefinitely and subject to sub-freezing temps though, as the soft rubber will likely harden and crack. The key is to NOT USE THEM (where there is weight on them stressing the rubber and during cornering) if they are that cold. And store them when not in use over the winter to the best of your ability. Usually once it get's into the 40s I park the car. No good for the tires and I run water only with no antifreeze in the motor.
I'm not sure it is productive to invent currently non-existent problems, regarding tires you don't own in an autocross you aren't signed up for and then attempt to solve this non-existent problem that you won't even be facing for many, many, many months. But as there is nothing better to do right now, let's keep going with this so I have something to do.
I think you are away over thinking this. It is a tire. It is replaced regularly if you are using it on a race track. Just like Captain Buddha, I go through two sets a weekend. I store some of my low heat cycle scrubs for practice or to literally give away to my buddies. So store them (not a big deal) or just toss them (not a big deal) if they are used up and then put new ones on in the spring. That's it.
I'm not sure I'll be going through tires, as much as you guys (HPDE is not necessarily racing).
I had some Hoosier R7s that were delivered to me last year. They arrived a day earlier than expected and left outdoors in 0 degree temp while I was at work. They sat there for 10 hours. I brought them in, let them warm up to room temperature before mounting and then used them to win a race two weeks later. No issues. I wouldn't intentionally leave them outdoors indefinitely and subject to sub-freezing temps though, as the soft rubber will likely harden and crack. The key is to NOT USE THEM (where there is weight on them stressing the rubber and during cornering) if they are that cold. And store them when not in use over the winter to the best of your ability. Usually once it get's into the 40s I park the car. No good for the tires and I run water only with no antifreeze in the motor.
This is what I hear most, regardless of the warnings given by the manufacturer! FWIW
I'm not sure it is productive to invent currently non-existent problems, regarding tires you don't own in an autocross you aren't signed up for and then attempt to solve this non-existent problem that you won't even be facing for many, many, many months. But as there is nothing better to do right now, let's keep going with this so I have something to do.
Not sure about your sarcastic tone, but it's called research, might want to look into it at some point.
I'm not sure I'll be going through tires, as much as you guys (HPDE is not necessarily racing).
Wait...what???!!??? You mean all those trophies and championships aren't racing??? Well...at least there's this...Mordeth and I will fight to the death on the next track day for this (BTW - I truly hate track days...):
Butt seriously - if you want to win you've gotta be ready to pony up - it's not an arms race but don't skimp on tires. Unless you actually know how many sessions/runs/etc you can get out of a set of tires then it's really all just mental masturbation...and, with what we've got gone one here....that's not necessarily a bad thing - but talk to the fast guys in AX - a few of them have chimed in on other threads - ask them about tire wear, etc...then figure it out. Imagine a hat-tipping icon here...
Come to think of it, this applies to Summer Street tires as well, like the Pirelli P-Zero's I've got my eye on in particular sizes...great stuff guys, thanks for your feedback. I'm leaning towards keeping a small heated storage area year around, for potentially, multiple sets of wheels/tires.
Come to think of it, this applies to Summer Street tires as well, like the Pirelli P-Zero's I've got my eye on in particular sizes...great stuff guys, thanks for your feedback. I'm leaning towards keeping a small heated storage area year around, for potentially, multiple sets of wheels/tires.
My street C7Z06 does not leave the garage when its cold...due to the tire / temp issue. I've seen folks drive them year round in ice/snow...there's a thread or two on this forum about it...no thanks, not me... LOL
Different tires react differently to heat and cold, as well how they react to the rate at which they are heated up or cooled. Some are more tolerant than others. A7s are very soft, heat up very rapidly and are easy to overheat if not careful. R7s not so much and are more forgiving. Pirellis hate the cold and love the heat. Nitto NT01 are super forgiving, wear like iron, stay sticky for many, many heat cycles and can take a crap ton of abuse in hot or cold. And I've used other tires that can't take much fluctuation in temp at all before failing completely (delamination, tearing of tread blocks, scorch marks, cracks etc).
The bottom line is that for a performance tire, R-Compound, Hoosier, race slick etc, in general you should avoid subjecting them to freezing temps, direct flame and other extreme climate situations for any considerable length of time, and certainly not race on them in these conditions. And then use common sense to store them out of the elements and not in sub-freezing temps when not in use (or just toss them and buy a new set in the spring). I can't comment on your personal situation regarding storage space, nor can anyone, but we can offer some suggestions.
If it's me, I wouldn't let them sit all winter in an unheated, frozen garage. The full weight of the car is on them and as the temperature drops so does the tire pressure. This is because temperature and pressure are directly related. With sub-freezing temps and inadequate tire pressure the tire can be damaged. So you would need to over-inflate them and check them somewhat regularly. OR, just replace them in the spring, OR heat your garage, OR heat your basement, OR find a place to store them.
03-31-2020, 07:41 AM
What to do with Summer/Race Tires during the 'Winter' ?
