(Edit to correct rear camber #s at 1.0 vs 2.0 (actually-1.2 L and -0.9R) today before realignment. No way I was at 2 degrees on the rear).

A recent post by Dave Farmer, and a conversation with Gary Hoffman of Hardbar lead me to post this message.

My last alignment (02/03 at the beginning of the season) had my car at -1.8 and -1.0 camber (F/R), negative 0.10 and 0.11 front toe (toe-OUT) and positive 0.15 and 0.13 rear toe (toe-IN).

I took it in today to check and realign, and found that the camber had actually increased to -2.2 and -1.0 (F/R) but the toe had altered dramatically to PLUS (toe-in) 0.14 and 0.25 front, and (negatively) to plus (toe-in) 0.12 and 0.03 (rear).

I have a feeling that this may explain why my car feels more squirrelly in left turns than right and (pretty sorry excuse) why I have been doing so badly in AX this season.

The real point is that my alignment has changed dramatically in a few months, and the toe settings are the main changes. When I switch wheels tomorrow I will make certain to retighten both the lower control arm mounting bolt nuts (to at least the spec 125 pds - front) and in particular the steering linkage tie rod jam nuts (F&R) to at least the recommended 44 lbs.

At this point, I have been able to get the front camber out to -2.5 degrees (each side) and the rears at -1.1 and -1.3. Front toe now is -0.13 and -0.11 (L&R) and rear toe is +0.15 and +0.18 (with full tank but without driver). All this is with the OEM adjustment cams on my lowered 2000 FRC. I will be looking for means of taking my rear camber out a bit more. Gary suggests he has a bolt-on fix, and I will follow up with him for this.



[Modified by rbeckham, 10:12 PM 7/15/2003]

 

I have noticed that the leaf springs take a while to settle, so depending on how the alignment shop supports the car while making changes, some of the change could be just suspension travel.

If you are doing a lot of track stuff, I would suggest getting a straight edge and a tape measure, as well as a 2' long level. In general, if you hold the level against the bottom of the tire and straight up, you can measure the distance between the level and the upper tire portion. 1" is very close to 3 degrees, so 1/3" is about 1 degree. For toe, I hold the straight edge against the front portion of the tire (even with the rim/tire junction) and simply compare the front of the tire to the rear. You can measure very closely this way.

Anyway, it is a good habit to find a way to check your alignment regularly, just to make sure nothing is moving drastically.

 

[QUOTE]I have noticed that the leaf springs take a while to settle, so depending on how the alignment shop supports the car while making changes, some of the change could be just suspension travel.

If you are doing a lot of track stuff, I would suggest getting a straight edge and a tape measure, as well as a 2' long level. In general, if you hold the level against the bottom of the tire and straight up, you can measure the distance between the level and the upper tire portion. 1" is very close to 3 degrees, so 1/3" is about 1 degree. For toe, I hold the straight edge against the front portion of the tire (even with the rim/tire junction) and simply compare the front of the tire to the rear. You can measure very closely this way.

Great tip David, Thanks.

I wish I could get more rear camber but in three tries they can only get -.75 degree.


[Modified by see5, 8:44 PM 7/15/2003]

 

David,

Thank you so much for this tip! I've been wondering how I could be checking my alignment without spending money at the local shop (who I like and trust with my cars, but don't want to spend money needlessly). I knew about watching the toe settings, but not the camber.

Thanks, and good luck this year!

Mike

 

I got the camber one, but can you explain in more detail how to do the toe one? I guess I don't understand what to compare. I'm a little slow :) Thanks!

 

I don't think David' meaning he can measure the toe angle, just that it gives you a way to see if the toe has moved significantly (i.e. toe-in to neutral or toe out). Also, next time I get mine aligned I'm going to see what that sight line looks like, so hopefully I'll have something to compare when I go back later.

Have a good one,
Mike

 

I know there's a way to do toe with hand tools and string, but I guess I need to consult google. :) Thanks.

 

Google rocks.

http://www.vtr.org/maintain/diy-alignment.html

 

Awesome link, thanks!

 

We at Hardbar.net have a new kit exactly for this purpose. The standard kit is for all C5's and consists of 12 CNC machined billet camber plates and the correct bolts, nylock nuts and washers. The problem with the GM camber plates is that they slam out the camber too much for many tracks especially in the rear. Our standard kit will give you about (each car is slightly different) 1.8 degrees in the front and 1.5 deg in the rear. As we and many others have found out, the stock camber cams will move, ours will not move, PERIOD! Other setups are available, but we have found out for most people, this is a very fast setup. Obviously you will have to set your toe, but that is a very simple adjustment.
The kit is priced at $175 plus shipping.

Gary Hoffman
Hardbar.net LLC
603.682.8073

 

Gary,
Is this adjustable or fixed. Can you post a picture or send me one?

 

Fixed. Pics to follow soon. They look like the GM plates, only with specific hole locations.