CCW warning
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 12,439
Likes: 920
From: CONCORD NC
CCW warning
this is from Tom Oates World Challenge car. Not judging, just warning to inspect. These wheels have approx 10 hrs on them, on a lightweight car with Toyo RA1's.
This was the bad one (obviously), and 2 others showed visibly cracked spokes.
Dave
This was the bad one (obviously), and 2 others showed visibly cracked spokes.
Dave
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 50,808
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From: Buy USA products! Check the label! Employ Americans
Re: CCW warning (davidfarmer)
:eek: How did the car come to a stop? Thanks for the tip. I was planning on some this winter but now :confused: . Have any used race wheels forsale?
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 50,808
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From: Buy USA products! Check the label! Employ Americans
Re: CCW warning (Wicked Zoh6)
Since three were cracked all would have to be rubbing something which I doubt. I would not blame CCW but the aluminum supplier may be a fault.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 583
Likes: 0
From: n. hollywood, ca
Re: CCW warning (John Shiels)
I spoke with John about this a couple of months ago and he gave me a heads up, there were some rims that were not de-burred and it made them weaker. Check the inside of the "spokes" and make sure the edges are rounded and not "sharp". If the edges are sharp contact CCW, from what I understand it was a very small amount of wheels but still dangerous. If you own em' check em'. Mine were OK.
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,936
Likes: 0
From: Clemmons NC
Re: CCW warning (SoCal Rebell)
I spoke with John about this a couple of months ago and he gave me a heads up, there were some rims that were not de-burred and it made them weaker. Check the inside of the "spokes" and make sure the edges are rounded and not "sharp". If the edges are sharp contact CCW, from what I understand it was a very small amount of wheels but still dangerous. If you own em' check em'. Mine were OK.
Thanks for the heads up Dave.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 620
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From: Daytona Beach Florida
Re: CCW warning (z060ntrack)
i have had several people call and email me about this thread (thanks for the heads up), i am looking into it at this time but dont have all the facts available yet.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,070
Likes: 12
From: NY
Re: CCW warning (davidfarmer)
I'm fully confident in my CCW wheels. One must know all the facts before any judgements are made. Maintenace, inspection and misuse of a product must be realized.
Mike
Mike
Drifting
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,936
Likes: 0
From: Clemmons NC
Re: CCW warning (ZR1 MK)
I'm fully confident in my CCW wheels. One must know all the facts before any judgements are made. Maintenace, inspection and misuse of a product must be realized.
Mike
Mike
Who wouldn't check wheels for cracks at a race track? :chevy
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 13,913
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From: Manassas VA
NoVa Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor '14
Re: CCW warning (z060ntrack)
I must be missing something but I don't see anyone "slaming" CCW... I own a set of CCW rims and will be watching this post...
I think maybe you and Tom should take a serious look at your own procedures before you fire of a slam on a reputable supporting vendor!
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,576
Likes: 85
From: Sumter SC
Re: CCW warning (Bluewasp)
I think maybe you and Tom should take a serious look at your own procedures before you fire of a slam on a reputable supporting vendor!
I bought a set of CCW a long time ago and sent them back. I was not impressed by the workmanship on the wheels. Does CCW have it's own engineering or is it farmed out. I know that BBS/Fiske/HRE and others engineer the wheel as well as design. Racing does offer additional side loading that a street wheel & tire does not get.
Are all the facts in - no but if I owned CCW whhels I would be checking them a bit more than I would BBS/HRE or Fiske.
I bought a set of CCW a long time ago and sent them back. I was not impressed by the workmanship on the wheels. Does CCW have it's own engineering or is it farmed out. I know that BBS/Fiske/HRE and others engineer the wheel as well as design. Racing does offer additional side loading that a street wheel & tire does not get.
Are all the facts in - no but if I owned CCW whhels I would be checking them a bit more than I would BBS/HRE or Fiske.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Annapolis, MD USA
Re: CCW warning (racewheel)
i have had several people call and email me about this thread (thanks for the heads up), i am looking into it at this time but dont have all the facts available yet.
But I have to say your reply doesn't inspire a lot of confidence that you are on top of this in the sense that you have checked out the circumstances, the results, and the possible causes of the incident. While there hasn't been a lot of traffic here on this subject, I'm sure there are a lot of people waiting to hear what this is ultimately all about. I'm one of them, and will appreciate your letting us know as soon as you can what your analysis of this is, and if there may be certain wheels we should inspect, and how we should inspect them for potential problems. Thanks and best regards, Robert
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,375
Likes: 406
From: Florida
Re: CCW warning (rbeckham)
John has responded more fully on the parallel thread which David Farmer started over in the "C5 Technical/Performance" forum.
Turns out the wheel centers had way more than 10 hours on them. More like a full season, with several crashes included. To save the team time and money, CCW (perhaps unwisely) trusted the race team to rebuild damaged wheels themselves and apply the proper common sense in deciding which parts could be re-used. The team apparently decided the centers were good to go, and should take full responsibility for continuing to operate wheels that were damaged, even though cracks are apparently readily visible far in advance of an actual failure. One has to wonder why Tom Oates/Tiger Racing themselves did not make a big deal out of this, since it is their car that was affected, not David's.
Perhaps CCW should do what Kinesis, HRE, Fikse and so on do: charge $700 and two weeks to rebuild the wheels at the factory. I may be off a bit on price, but I am sure David, being a Kinesis distributor, can provide an up-to-date price schedule on what Kinesis charges to rebuild smashed-up wheels.
[Modified by TTRotary, 5:55 PM 10/29/2003]
Turns out the wheel centers had way more than 10 hours on them. More like a full season, with several crashes included. To save the team time and money, CCW (perhaps unwisely) trusted the race team to rebuild damaged wheels themselves and apply the proper common sense in deciding which parts could be re-used. The team apparently decided the centers were good to go, and should take full responsibility for continuing to operate wheels that were damaged, even though cracks are apparently readily visible far in advance of an actual failure. One has to wonder why Tom Oates/Tiger Racing themselves did not make a big deal out of this, since it is their car that was affected, not David's.
Perhaps CCW should do what Kinesis, HRE, Fikse and so on do: charge $700 and two weeks to rebuild the wheels at the factory. I may be off a bit on price, but I am sure David, being a Kinesis distributor, can provide an up-to-date price schedule on what Kinesis charges to rebuild smashed-up wheels.
[Modified by TTRotary, 5:55 PM 10/29/2003]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,708
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From: Bedford NH
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: CCW warning (TTRotary)
In my over 20 years as a structural engineer for 3 very well known Aerospace companies I have seen many failures in metallic and composite structures. There are many reasons for this, and I do not care to get into it here, but suffice it to say that no matter what wheel (or wing spar, landing gear, booster adapter for that matter) you choose you should carefully inspect high stress parts on a regular basis ESPECIALLY with high performance vehicles like race cars and jet airplanes. I remember a quote that went something like "Grand Prix performance equals Grand Prix maintenence schedules", and todays cars like the C5 are quicker than the T/A cars of a few years ago (look at the lap records at Lime Rock). I use CCW's and have never had a problem but I still inspect them because all lightweight race wheels have a finite life, just like rotors, a-arms, and airplane wing spars to name a few (all USAF C-5A transport aircraft had to be re-winged after many hard years of hard use due to cracks in the wing spars). I have seen steel NASCAR style wheels and other brands of cast and forged aluminum and magnesium wheels crack due to the stresses of racing. Bottom line, CCW's are fine wheels as are many others, but please inspect periodically whatever brand you use to be safe.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,122
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From: Annapolis, MD USA
Re: CCW warning (davidfarmer)
this is from Tom Oates World Challenge car. Not judging, just warning to inspect. These wheels have approx 10 hrs on them, on a lightweight car with Toyo RA1's.
John - please confirm.
Dave - I have a lot of pictures of your broken Kinesis rear wheel at the DC Grand Prix two years ago; you initially didn't think you hit anything, but maybe you later decided you did.
Anyway, wheels break, especially when you bang them at high speeds or otherwise abuse them as in racing. I hope there was no intention on anyone's part to diss anyone else, or anyone else's wheels. So far as I know, each of these wheels is pretty solid unless they are hopelessly abused.
Hoping for an answer from both John & Dave - regards, Robert
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,858
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From: Boston, Dallas, Detroit, SoCal, back to Boston MA
Re: CCW warning (CPT Z06)
That's a definite possibility
I don't buy chrome wheels because the process causes hydrogen embrittlement.
Now that I see the pictures, they wouldn't load before, it looks more like damage from an impact. You GT guys play kinda rough.
I don't buy chrome wheels because the process causes hydrogen embrittlement.
Now that I see the pictures, they wouldn't load before, it looks more like damage from an impact. You GT guys play kinda rough.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,063
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From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Re: CCW warning (BrianCunningham)
Not sure what all the discussion is about. All I have seen is a comment from Dave that people should check their wheels and another comment from John that he is looking into the particulars to make sure there isn't a deeper problem. Nothing spectacular in either comment. Nobody slung any mud and the warning and response were both done well. One thing I do see is these types of threads need to be contained to one forum for comments and responses. I hate bouncing through 2 other forums to see the whole story. However, multiple postings seem to be the thing to do.
Bill
Bill