Restamp vs CE replacement
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 394
Likes: 5
From: Uniontown PA
Restamp vs CE replacement
I know of a 65 which is a matching# and has received a Bloomington gold certificate.The owner also has the CE replacement block in storage that was put in by a dealer under warranty.What are the ethics,since it passed the judges but is not original?Is there a great difference between a restamp and CE replacement in an ordinary mid year? [If there is such a thing] 
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 38,897
Likes: 1,926
From: Washington Michigan
65's weren't covered by the 5/50 warranty, and "CE" short blocks weren't manufactured until April, 1969. Bloomington Gold and NCRS Flight judging is based on whether a component "appears" to be original, not whether it IS original, so the re-stamped block in the car must have been well done to pass judging. It's "correct", not "original"; neither judging organization certifies that anything is "original", only that the car appeared to be in compliance with their judging standard on the day it was judged.
A "CE" block will get an 88-point deduction (out of the 613 allocated to the block) in NCRS Flight Judging for the pad stampings (assuming the block casting number and date are correct for the car). In Bloomington Gold judging, a "CE" block will lose all the block points, and will not be eligible for "Gold".
A "CE" block will get an 88-point deduction (out of the 613 allocated to the block) in NCRS Flight Judging for the pad stampings (assuming the block casting number and date are correct for the car). In Bloomington Gold judging, a "CE" block will lose all the block points, and will not be eligible for "Gold".
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 38,897
Likes: 1,926
From: Washington Michigan
Functionally, no - but for someone who is a stickler for the appearance of originality or plans to have the car judged, it can be an issue. For the average buyer who isn't that concerned about component originality, probably wouldn't matter; very few 40-year-old Corvettes still have their "original" engines, and most folks understand that. 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,078
Likes: 101
From: Riverhead New York
Emmett
Go back a few days in the Forum. I started quite a discussion on restamping of blocks. Lots of views, even a few "attitudes". Our cars are a very unique collector car in that they are/were attainable to so many people and they truely are America's sports car. When a weathered and worn Vette is taken back to it's original newness, why shouldn't the restorer take the pride of recreating originality in every respect? Date codes were applied for various purposes. The fact remains they were there when built and should be as correctly replicated as reasonable during restoration. This thought applies to radiators, expansion tanks, Transmissions, so why not engine blocks? Good Luck with your project!
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,300
Likes: 0
From: Iowa
When I got my 65 396 about 17 years ago, it had a CE 396 from 1972. None of the major components block, heads, intake, were correct numbered or dated. Over the years I have aquired almost all of the parts to put the car back to "as deliverd". I decked the block both to true it and remove the original stamp. I toiled with the idea of restamping for a long time. Several factors went into my final decision. I never intend to submit my car for judging but I do want it to look original to the above average critic. My final decision was to not restamp it and leave the pad bare but I do feel that if someone else were going the other route of attaining Gold certification, I see nothing wrong with making the car appear as delivered by restamping. As to the financial issues of restamping, let the buyer beware.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,500
Likes: 109
From: Severn Maryland
St. Jude Donor '05-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
I have no problem with folks doing a RESTAMP either - as long as they admit it to EVERYONE that it is a restamp and DO NOT attempt to make out like it is ORIGINAL! FRAUD IN MY MIND, if they attempt to claim a restamp is original - or, when they go to Bloomington or NCRS and they DO NOT STATE the block is not original
Personally, I believe MOST cars DO NOT have original blocks in them, and blocks should not be restamped. Just my personal opinion
Personally, I believe MOST cars DO NOT have original blocks in them, and blocks should not be restamped. Just my personal opinion
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,257
Likes: 6
From: Mission Viejo California
Originally Posted by mdz06vetter
I have no problem with folks doing a RESTAMP either <snip>
...
Personally, I believe <snip> blocks should not be restamped.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,620
Likes: 0
From: 20 forward gears to shift through in MD
Originally Posted by Seaside63
But then, what about the guys with the original engine that had its pad wiped by machining ?
Should they be allowed to restamp?
That's the ORIGINAL motor, no?
Should they be allowed to restamp?
That's the ORIGINAL motor, no?
[Flame Suit On]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 803
Likes: 0
From: Fort Wayne IN
St. Jude Donor '06
I saw mdZ06vetter's car at Bloomington last year. If I am not mistaken from reports from other posts, he decided not to retamp his block, take the deduction, and forego the chance for Gold. My impression is that he is a man of conviction. 
Check out his retoration photos. Beautiful car!!, Rick.
http://www.pbase.com/c5vetter/profile
Mike
Check out his retoration photos. Beautiful car!!, Rick. http://www.pbase.com/c5vetter/profile
Mike
Last edited by jntdysf; Mar 12, 2005 at 07:48 PM.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 440
Likes: 51
From: St. Louis MO
I see no problem with stamping a correct casting #/dated block. This is all fun for me.. I am doing a body-off on my 67, and have spent tons of time finding parts to make it as correct, as I can get.. Alternator, regulator, heads, radiator cap, etc.. Its FUN!! My motor is correct casting and date as well as the pad having all the correct stampings. When I bought the car, I was more interested in the casting # and date than the front pad info. Changing a car from its original build to make a profit is the issue for me. I get a kick out of the posts that claim there are more BB cars out there than GM built. Thats the crime in our hobby. Restore is the key word...Kurt
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,500
Likes: 109
From: Severn Maryland
St. Jude Donor '05-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
I did pick a side - I said if folks are honest and state they are restamp, I have no problem - what I have a problem with is those folks who represent their restamps or ORIGINAL - that is FRAUD!
FYI - a car is original only once - when you change the spark plugs out, the plugs are no longer original! when you change tires, the tires are no longer original, etc. so, when you change the engine out, no matter if you RESTAMP, it is not the original engine/block - but folks do not state it up front, and that is what I have the problem with - I would venture to say that the MAJORITY of the so-called big blocks out there today have restamps and are FRAUDS!
FYI - a car is original only once - when you change the spark plugs out, the plugs are no longer original! when you change tires, the tires are no longer original, etc. so, when you change the engine out, no matter if you RESTAMP, it is not the original engine/block - but folks do not state it up front, and that is what I have the problem with - I would venture to say that the MAJORITY of the so-called big blocks out there today have restamps and are FRAUDS!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,078
Likes: 101
From: Riverhead New York
BB Vettes
Those of us with AARP cards remember the sole reason to shell out the extra bucks for th BB cars was mostly to beat the living **** out of them. Most did not survive too many trips above 6000 on a regular basis over a couple of years. So, draw your own conclusion! 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,257
Likes: 6
From: Mission Viejo California
Originally Posted by jntdysf
I saw mdZ06vetter's car at Bloomington last year. If I am not mistaken from reports from other posts, he decided not to retamp his block, take the deduction, and forego the chance for Gold. My impression is that he is a man of conviction. Check out his retoration photos. Beautiful car!!, Rick.
http://www.pbase.com/c5vetter/profile
Mike
Check out his retoration photos. Beautiful car!!, Rick. http://www.pbase.com/c5vetter/profile
Mike
mdZ06vetter did a wonderful job and deserves accolades for his work.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,808
Likes: 24
From: Westport CT
Originally Posted by 67vetteal
Those of us with AARP cards remember the sole reason to shell out the extra bucks for th BB cars was mostly to beat the living **** out of them. Most did not survive too many trips above 6000 on a regular basis over a couple of years. So, draw your own conclusion!
and yes, your point about these cars (SHP SBs and BBs) getting driven hard and grenading the engine is pretty much one of the main reasons original engine cars command higher sales prices - rareity - which is queered by the counterfit originals.
p.s. mdz06vetter has my admiration, you can tell where I stand.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,500
Likes: 109
From: Severn Maryland
St. Jude Donor '05-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
Mike and everyone else - thanks for your WAY TOO kind comments on LADY! I will admit, she is beuatiful, and can't wait for the weather to cooperate so I can get her and drive her! I know everytime I start her up and drive her, Zora and Larry are smiling!
