hey i have a 64 327, i recently rebuilt the engine and i've been having problems. most of them are new parts that are bad, i've had too much resistance in spark plug wires, 2 bad ignition coils, and now this problem that i can figure out.....

when the car idles, it sounds like every so often a plug isn't fireing. so i tested all of the wires, and they each hae electrisity going threw them. then i started the car, and pulleg the spark plug wire from the #1 cyl. and the car got ruff. so i figured that worked (my thinking is, is that if the car has no change in sound, that the plug on that cyl. is bad.) Well i went around to all 8, and found that pulled the spark plug wire off the #2, #3, #5, and #8 plugs the car made no difference in sound. ok so i figure i had a bad batch of plugs.... but to back this up, i pulled the plugs from the #2, #3, #5, and #8 cyl. each, and made sure that each plug was sparking (which they all are)...

I even pulled the wires from the 2,3,5,and 8 at the same time, and had no change in idle????

Im confused... and convinced that this car is possesed!

Is there any reason on why these cyl. with no power to the plugs are having the engine at a smooth idle??

 

Your post is a little confusing and a few questions need to be answered in order that we can help you diagnose your problem.
1) Has the engine ever run right since the rebuild?
2) Did you use all new ign. parts with the rebuild?
3) Did you follow the correct adjusting procedure?
4) Have you done a compression test on each cylinder?
5) You mention you had some problems with bad parts-what were they?

With the answers to these questions it will be easier to provide you with constructive advice.

 

ok
1) it runs right, just has no power (which i am thinking it si because it is running on 4 cyl.

2) I am using an old distrib, but with a new cap, rotor, and points. a new ignition coil, and new taylor 8mm wires, and new autolite plugs

3)it is adjusted correctly.. as in timed

4) yes did a compression test, and am gettin 155 as an average ocross all 8

5)the bad parts were the spark plug wires (which were replaced) and 2 bad ignition coils (which were replaced)

hope this helps

 

oh and i know why it is running smooth, and that is because the firing arder is 18436572, and the cylanders that arn't sparking or arn't working i should say, are 8,3,5, and 2 Every other cyl. so its acting like a 4 cyl.

but dont know how to fic the problem (like i've said, each plug is firing)

 

Quote
“I even pulled the wires from the 2, 3, 5, and 8 at the same time, and had no change in idle????


Did you pull the plug boots completely off the plug, or did you just pull them back a little. My point is that if you pulled them back just a little bit or almost off, the spark could have just been jumping the distance to the plug and still firing the cylinder.

I find it almost incredible that the motor ran at all with 4 cylinders not firing. Granted they are 2 on each bank still running, but it must have really been shaking.

Give us some basics, type of setup, type of parts, where you are at on the project, did it ever run, what is the timing at, etc.

I have never had a “Bad” Plug, are the electrodes mashed in, did the piston hit the plug?

Start from the top. Check your plugs; get new ones if you are unsure. Install them. Then bring the motor to TDC (Top Dead Center), remember that the timing mark goes around TWICE, so pull number 1 plug, put your thumb over the hole, and crank the motor, you will feel when it is on the compression stroke. Next WITH THE PLUGS OUT, put a breaker bar, with a 5/8” socket on the balancer bolt and turn the motor over gently to 8* BTDC (before top dead center). This is the marks ON TOP of the ZERO mark on the timing tab. They are in 2 degree increments so set the line on the balancer to line up with the fourth notch ABOVE the 0 mark. NEXT, pull your distributor cap and note were the rotor is pointing. (The metal electrode tab on the rotor). It should be close to the terminal just to the right of the little metal door on the cap. Take a marker and follow the #1 terminal to the base of the cap and make a mark on the distributor body. Then from above, line the rotor up with this mark.
Next, start with plug wire #1, and follow it from #1 cylinder to the #1 terminal and plug it in. Do this with all 8. If you forget, the firing order is on the manifold. This will ensure that the plug wires are in the right order, and that the timing is set pretty close for a start.

Next check the coil, and make sure the positive and negative wires are on and in order and that the terminals of the coil are not grounding to the shielding. You can bench OHM test your coil, or just crank the engine over with the coil wire pulled from the cap and hold it about inch away from the manifold or clean metal surface, you should have a 1.5 – 2 inch spark.

PS. I almost always get a shock when I get the plug boot off because you have to put your hand on the boot to pull and when they get off they spark jumps out the end to your fingers if you are not careful to pull them back to the end.

Mark

 

The boots were completely off, and dangiling down towards the ground.

As for as the piston hitting the plugs, there not, and the plugs are gapped right.

The timing is about 16-18 deg advanced, but thats do to a new cam,

and yes yes and yes to the things you've told me to do, ive done them already

 

Ok, 16-18 sounds like a tad much, what kind of cam?

I am running a stock 30-30 cam, and with it's monster overlap, 12* is factory recommendations. I have jacked it to 14 with 100LL avgas, and I am running 11:1.

Some carb problems can mask themselves as ignition problems. Especially if the carb is lean at idle.

Have you taken vacuum readings at idle? What carb do you have?

Mark

 

the vac is reading 15'' and the carb is a carter AFB freshly rebuilt.

maybe i should mention what i did to the car during the rebuild

Bored 60 over, new valve guides and seats, new oil pump, new fuel pump, new fuel line, rebuilt carb, new cam and lifters from crane, new clutch kit, new pushrods, a turndown crank and i think thats it... theres so much new stuff i cant remember lol

oh the cam is

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tNumber=113942

 

This may be way out there, but could you have left a small rag, or something to prevent debri from falling into the intake IN the intake?

We have spark, and I take it fuel, so how about Air?

155 lbs on a fresh rebuilt would say to me about 9.5:1.

What cam are you running? Big cams like more compression due to the overlap.

15" Hg on the vacuum sound a tad high for a big cam, does the gauge flicker, or is it rock steady?

Mild cams should be in the area of 15-19 on the vacuum gauge. Bigger cams with more overlap 10-14 with gauge flicker.

Also could you have some bad gas, or cloged fuel filter?

Mark

 

i jsut edited my last post so take a look at that again, but i have new gas and a new filter... i'll check that rag idea... i just think that it would be rare for the plugs to be black without fuel and air. but who knows.

and the vac flickers, highest is 15, probably averagne is 14.5-15

 

Air, Fuel, and spark, and it should go bang.

Did you set the rocker arms, or did the shop set them? Are there any that are loose?
You would hear them tick I would presume if they were loose.

I no nothing about Carter carbs. I had a friend (me) leave a power valve out of a Holley and had similar problems. It just flooded the engine so bad it ran like you described, and fouled all but the most resilient plugs. This was on a Big Block.

Might be something similar with the carb, I am not sure what the internals of a Carter look like or the functions. But like any carb, there has to be some enrichening circuit.
Do you have another carb to try, or can you pull yours apart to check it out.

Mark

 

i set the rocker arms, just the way my vette book said to, loosen till they knock and then 1 full turn in.

as far as the carb, my friend rebuilt it, and i just watched over his shoulder.

i wish i had another carb to try... ive been thinking about buying a 600-650 cfm holly or edelbrock, ide preffer the holley, but im still undecided. first i would like to know the problem before i start spending 400 buck to see if it is the carb. As for taking the carb apart.. thats not my department LOL too many bits and peices for me lol

 

You should follow the valve settings that Crane recommends for the cam. (Probably the same), but with aftermarket parts, most pages of the shop manual can be kept by the toilet, but not for reading.

You might have to bite the bullet and by a book on carbs, I had friends "experts" tune carbs for me in high school and I just broke down, bought some books and did my homework. Carter, Holley, AFB or whatever, they all work, it is just whatever religion you chose to study and subscribe to. Carbs are not like baseball hats, where one size fits all. Allot of tuning is needed to get the results you need, especially with an aftermarket cam. This is not the problem at hand, but once the car is running on all 8, the carb tuning can begin. BUT, if the carb is out of sorts now, fixing it to at least run the engine is first and foremost.

Your friend may be an expert, I don't know, but with everything we discussed it seems to be the last unknown variable.

Mark

 

Someone with more knowledge than me says....


"This engine behavior is typical of a broken valve spring on one of the cylinders he pulled. The reason it affects more than one cylinder is that the intake manifold is a dual plane manifold.

To better distribute fuel to the end cylinders, dual plane manifolds use half the carburetor to feed some cylinders and half to feed the others. This arrangement equalizes the length of the runners and keeps the four center cylinders under the manifold from getting a rich mixture and the four end cylinders from getting a lean mixture.

If the valve spring on a companion cylinder is broken, the vacuum to the four cylinders will be lower and they will all be more or less affected by the bad cylinder."

 

milkdud,

Sounds like your valves are set too tight. One full turn in after they quit making noise is too tight. Try 1/4 to 1/2 turn in. Better to have them too loose than too tight. They might not be closing as you have adjusted all of the tolerance in the lifters out. Try this.

 

I agree with Coves4me, sounds like the valves may be too tight.

 

Are you the person who put the big hairy cam in the original 300hp rebuild?

 

Milkdud

you posted on the other site last week regarding problems also.

I would remind you to go back and reread JohnZ's posts to you.
here is one of them from John.
"That cam is a mismatch with the rest of your stock components; 218*/230* at .050" is fairly radical for a stock 327/300 intake, and will kill your low-end torque. You don't need a bigger carb - the one you have is more than adequate. I suspect the rest of your issues are related to valve adjustment (1/2-turn down from clatter is plenty) and lack of proper vacuum advance. Have you mapped the centrifugal advance curve in the distributor - when it starts, what the max advance is, and when it's all in? Until you know that, you don't know where to go with your initial timing anyway, as you don't want to exceed 34*-36* total timing with full centrifugal advance. The centrifugal-only Mallory distributor is next to useless on a street-driven car, but Summit and Jeg's LOVE to sell them anyway; I'd send it back - it'll never run right on the street without vacuum advance. You also don't need the high-performance oil pump; the stock pump and oiling system works just fine.

With the original cam grind and a properly-curved vacuum advance distributor, it should run like gangbusters and have loads of low-end torque."

before making any other changes, you would probably be best off replacing that that big cam with another that is more compatible with the other componets on your motor and swap out the distributor.
also your valves are probably too tight as mentioned already if you went a full turn - John recommended only a 1/2 turn on them.

after swapping cam and distributor and readjusting your valves THAN reset timimg to the proper amount and see how she runs. if you still have problems than post back.

I think the biggest problem you have is that you have too many wrong things happening all at once and it will be next to impossible to fix until you take it one step at a time

step 1: swap cam for stock one
step 2: swap distributor for a vacum advance model
step 3: readjust valves
step 4: read the articles John sent you on re-mapping your advance curve and than re-set the timing on the car
step 5: test motor and if it's still not right than post back.

I hate to say it but I think you are trying to fix the problem by avoiding the difficult steps of the cam and distributor issues first and you probably won't get too far that way.

 

BTW

I see you are new to both sites.
there are a lot of extremely knowelagble people here trying to help you.
There are a few in particular that if you are very lucky will chime in with suggestions or advice and if they do you would be foolish not to listen very, very carefully to them as they have forgotten more about these cars than most people will ever know. JohnZ is one of them........... if you are lucky he may mention his background sometime.

oh.......I'm NOT one of the knowlegable people but I'm learning to listen when i need to.

 

yes, but have im think im onto somthing with the carb. as the other site says the right side of the carb might not be working! not good news, but good enough news since it could identify the problem

LOL and its not a big hairy cam..... it uses NAIR! lol