speaker box
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,130
Likes: 1
From: mesa,az
speaker box
anyone built a speaker box for there C2. i decided to forgo the rear bar and kickspeakers i bought. going to build a real system, after driving around with the sidepipes i don't think that custom audio stuff is going to cut it.
POSSE ZR-1 Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 139
From: Groton CT
Check the boxes I used near the end of the thread. Not built in, I wanted to be able to remove them if necessary. Between the radio and the new speakers, it's not a bad system, but it's not "High end" by any means. Still, I can hear the radio over the side pipes.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...um_id=4&arch=1
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...um_id=4&arch=1
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,106
Likes: 38
From: Newark DE
Panchop
I spent many years in the car audio industry.
from an audio point of view, big rear speaker boxes are not your best bet. The only type of speakers you really need or want to have in the back are subwoofers and with the size of the interiors of our cars you don't even need a big subwoofer or box to accomplish the goal of good bass in the car.
I can help you if you want with some ideas for a good sounding, yet simple audio system that would be sound nice, not be too complex, and yet be enough to overcome the sound of the side pipes.
I spent many years in the car audio industry.
from an audio point of view, big rear speaker boxes are not your best bet. The only type of speakers you really need or want to have in the back are subwoofers and with the size of the interiors of our cars you don't even need a big subwoofer or box to accomplish the goal of good bass in the car.
I can help you if you want with some ideas for a good sounding, yet simple audio system that would be sound nice, not be too complex, and yet be enough to overcome the sound of the side pipes.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,130
Likes: 1
From: mesa,az
I'd love to hear your advice. right now i have an antique automobile rdio conversion installed in the car. a new twin cone front speaker that is usless. I own a set of the custom auto sound kick panel speakers and rear speaker bar bar. after hearing their front speaker i didn't bother installing the rest. I also have a road thunder 200 two channel 200 watts amp. what would your suggestion be.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,106
Likes: 38
From: Newark DE
depends....... are you overly concerned about keeping a stock appearance or is that secondary?
also, what kind of budget are you limited to? On the budget, I can come up with a nice sounding system that wouldn't cost a small fortune, but to do it right you do need to spend SOME money.
also, would you be doing the install yourself or taking it to a custom car audio shop and if doing it yourself, how much fabricating skills do you have?
sorry for all the questions but it would help me come up with a system suggestion that would be feasible for you if I know beforehand what any limits are in pertainent areas.
also, what kind of budget are you limited to? On the budget, I can come up with a nice sounding system that wouldn't cost a small fortune, but to do it right you do need to spend SOME money.
also, would you be doing the install yourself or taking it to a custom car audio shop and if doing it yourself, how much fabricating skills do you have?
sorry for all the questions but it would help me come up with a system suggestion that would be feasible for you if I know beforehand what any limits are in pertainent areas.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,130
Likes: 1
From: mesa,az
well i'd like to keep the cost down but i need to buy good speakers. i'm doing it all myself. i've had nothing but bad luck with ousiders. i can do everything but weld. my car aleready has spoilers, mags, custom engine, 5 speed, non vette color, late model L88 hood. still i don't want to cut any holes on the body.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,106
Likes: 38
From: Newark DE
can you do fiberglass work?
A relatively simple yet real nice system would be if you could build some custom fiberglass kickpanels (maybe start with the ones you bought than modify them) and install some 5 1/4" or even 6 1/2" high quality speakers in there. I prefer MB Quart speakers myself but your best bet is to go and listen to a number of different ones in your budget range and see what you like the sound of the most. Another very good speaker but usually not quite as expensive as the MB Quarts are JL Audio.
When doing the kick panels to hold the front speakers, design them so the speakers cross fire - the passenger side speaker should be mounted in the kick panel so that it's aimed at the driver's head, and the speaker in the driver's side kickpanel should be aimed at the passengers head.
The 5 1/4" size will work fine but if you can makes the kickpanels so that you can fit a 6 1/2" speaker that would be even better.
For the rear, a single 10" subwoofer is more than enough. JL Audio would be my first choice in brands for your subwoofer although there are plaenty of good brands out there. The key on this is the subwoofer box. I recommend going with a simple small sealed enclosure. JL Audio makes a number of 10" subs so pick one from them or any other good brand you like but the important thing is to check the enclosure specs on what you buy. look for a sub that is designed to work well in a small sealed enclusure. On a 10" sub you should be able to get one that works in box with approx. one square foot of internal air volume. That is actually a pretty small enclosure so it won't take up the entire rear cargo area. Build it out of 3/4" MDF wood which is the very best to use for sub boxes.
with the front speakers and the rear sub, your speakers are taken care of..........and no, you do NOT need regular speakers in the rear of the car.
Next, to power the speakers you need amplifier power and the built in amp in the radio will not work well enough, especially when trying to overcome the sound of the side pipes.
On the amp you have two options.
1. if you want to use your existing amp, see if it is "bridgable" into one channel and use that to run the subwoofer, than get a second 2-channel amp to run the front speakers. The amp for the front speakers should be a minimum of 50 watts, and even better 75 watts per channel RMS (continious) power, NOT peak power. Peak power ratings on amps are a completely useless spec and means nothing, only go by RMS power ratings.
Nnext, with the two amps you need to divide the frequecies with a 2-way electonic crossover. These are not expensive. A good brand on the crossover to look for for a low price and still has good performance is Coustic. It will run you less than $50 for the crossover and it will send only low freq (bass) to the amp for your sub and only send the mid and high freq. to the other amp for your front speakers.
2. an easier option is to just buy a nice 75wattx4 amp with a built in crossover. The front two channels will go to the front speakers, the rear two channels you can bridge together to a single channel and run to the sub. with the built-in crossover it eliminates having a seperate box to install and you usually set it up on the amp with switches so it's early to use, to set up, and makes the install easier.
Lot's of good amp vendors put there but while you are looking at the JL Audio subs, look at their line of amps also to consider.
Besides knowing the quality of their products because of my pass expereince in the car audio industry, I like the JL Audio line a lot because I also know the owner of the company. he is an obsolute genius when it comes to car audio and is also a great guy and when I knew him he would never consider putting out a product with his name on it unless it was actually good!
He is kinda like the JohnZ or the Noland Adams of Car Audio where is really is one of the true experts in his field.
As long as whatever radio you use has low-level outputs (RCA cables) to go into either the electronic crossover or into the amp you are ok there.
also, a radio with an AUX input line so you can plug an external musuc source such as an iPod into it is also a great feature.
if these basic idea appeals to you and seems do-able to you than I can give to additional details such as wiring requirements, etc. If you don't like this idea let me know and i'll come up with something else if you want.
A key thing to keep in mind on our cars, especially those of us with side pipes is that you WILL need to run an external amp such as I designed in this system for any speakers. There is a lot of ambient noise in our cars, from motor noise, road noise, tire noise, exhaust noise, etc to have to overcome. That simply means that to hear the music you need to have the system turned up louder than compared to a modern car and you need a good quality amp to do this without causing distortion and a really bad sound. The power from just the radio, even a so-called "hi-powered" radio will not be enough.
Also, don't worry about the power ratings on speakers - just choose the best ones you like the sound of and can afford. speakers are not the area to scimp on money wise as they are the most important aspect on how the system sounds. With the power ratings on speakers, they give you that info but with the system set up right you don't need to be concerned about it. I've thrown over 1000 watts (one thousand) into speakers that were "rated" at 50 watts and TRIED to blow them up but couldn't and than put 15 watts to them and blew them up in about 30 seconds. It's DISTORTION, not power, that damages speakers. with a good quality amp you are safe because a good amp will put out a clean, undistorted signal where a poor quality amp, and especially one built into a radio puts out a much more distorted signal and that will damage your speakers quickly.
I hope this helps a little
A relatively simple yet real nice system would be if you could build some custom fiberglass kickpanels (maybe start with the ones you bought than modify them) and install some 5 1/4" or even 6 1/2" high quality speakers in there. I prefer MB Quart speakers myself but your best bet is to go and listen to a number of different ones in your budget range and see what you like the sound of the most. Another very good speaker but usually not quite as expensive as the MB Quarts are JL Audio.
When doing the kick panels to hold the front speakers, design them so the speakers cross fire - the passenger side speaker should be mounted in the kick panel so that it's aimed at the driver's head, and the speaker in the driver's side kickpanel should be aimed at the passengers head.
The 5 1/4" size will work fine but if you can makes the kickpanels so that you can fit a 6 1/2" speaker that would be even better.
For the rear, a single 10" subwoofer is more than enough. JL Audio would be my first choice in brands for your subwoofer although there are plaenty of good brands out there. The key on this is the subwoofer box. I recommend going with a simple small sealed enclosure. JL Audio makes a number of 10" subs so pick one from them or any other good brand you like but the important thing is to check the enclosure specs on what you buy. look for a sub that is designed to work well in a small sealed enclusure. On a 10" sub you should be able to get one that works in box with approx. one square foot of internal air volume. That is actually a pretty small enclosure so it won't take up the entire rear cargo area. Build it out of 3/4" MDF wood which is the very best to use for sub boxes.
with the front speakers and the rear sub, your speakers are taken care of..........and no, you do NOT need regular speakers in the rear of the car.
Next, to power the speakers you need amplifier power and the built in amp in the radio will not work well enough, especially when trying to overcome the sound of the side pipes.
On the amp you have two options.
1. if you want to use your existing amp, see if it is "bridgable" into one channel and use that to run the subwoofer, than get a second 2-channel amp to run the front speakers. The amp for the front speakers should be a minimum of 50 watts, and even better 75 watts per channel RMS (continious) power, NOT peak power. Peak power ratings on amps are a completely useless spec and means nothing, only go by RMS power ratings.
Nnext, with the two amps you need to divide the frequecies with a 2-way electonic crossover. These are not expensive. A good brand on the crossover to look for for a low price and still has good performance is Coustic. It will run you less than $50 for the crossover and it will send only low freq (bass) to the amp for your sub and only send the mid and high freq. to the other amp for your front speakers.
2. an easier option is to just buy a nice 75wattx4 amp with a built in crossover. The front two channels will go to the front speakers, the rear two channels you can bridge together to a single channel and run to the sub. with the built-in crossover it eliminates having a seperate box to install and you usually set it up on the amp with switches so it's early to use, to set up, and makes the install easier.
Lot's of good amp vendors put there but while you are looking at the JL Audio subs, look at their line of amps also to consider.
Besides knowing the quality of their products because of my pass expereince in the car audio industry, I like the JL Audio line a lot because I also know the owner of the company. he is an obsolute genius when it comes to car audio and is also a great guy and when I knew him he would never consider putting out a product with his name on it unless it was actually good!
He is kinda like the JohnZ or the Noland Adams of Car Audio where is really is one of the true experts in his field.
As long as whatever radio you use has low-level outputs (RCA cables) to go into either the electronic crossover or into the amp you are ok there.
also, a radio with an AUX input line so you can plug an external musuc source such as an iPod into it is also a great feature.
if these basic idea appeals to you and seems do-able to you than I can give to additional details such as wiring requirements, etc. If you don't like this idea let me know and i'll come up with something else if you want.
A key thing to keep in mind on our cars, especially those of us with side pipes is that you WILL need to run an external amp such as I designed in this system for any speakers. There is a lot of ambient noise in our cars, from motor noise, road noise, tire noise, exhaust noise, etc to have to overcome. That simply means that to hear the music you need to have the system turned up louder than compared to a modern car and you need a good quality amp to do this without causing distortion and a really bad sound. The power from just the radio, even a so-called "hi-powered" radio will not be enough.
Also, don't worry about the power ratings on speakers - just choose the best ones you like the sound of and can afford. speakers are not the area to scimp on money wise as they are the most important aspect on how the system sounds. With the power ratings on speakers, they give you that info but with the system set up right you don't need to be concerned about it. I've thrown over 1000 watts (one thousand) into speakers that were "rated" at 50 watts and TRIED to blow them up but couldn't and than put 15 watts to them and blew them up in about 30 seconds. It's DISTORTION, not power, that damages speakers. with a good quality amp you are safe because a good amp will put out a clean, undistorted signal where a poor quality amp, and especially one built into a radio puts out a much more distorted signal and that will damage your speakers quickly.
I hope this helps a little
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,897
Likes: 1,357
From: Santa Ana CA
I replaced the rear jack panel with a piece I cut from particle board and mounted two JBL 8" 3-ways in them. I even added ports. I then made a wooden frame with mesh grill that slips over the jack panel to protect the speakers from any shifting cargo. The center portion of teh frame (above the tunnel) was fitted with a cover so serves as a small storage compartment.
The passenger seat was raised 1-3/4" and a 4-channel JBL amp was mounted under the seat. Eight gauge wire was run directly from the battery, under the car, to the amp.
The dash received a 6x9" dual voice coil woofer from Custom Autosound and outboard tweeters were mounted on the dash flanking the 6x9.
The passenger seat was raised 1-3/4" and a 4-channel JBL amp was mounted under the seat. Eight gauge wire was run directly from the battery, under the car, to the amp.
The dash received a 6x9" dual voice coil woofer from Custom Autosound and outboard tweeters were mounted on the dash flanking the 6x9.
Last edited by toddalin; Feb 2, 2006 at 12:22 PM.
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Brett Foote
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 990
Likes: 4
From: DAVIE/FORT LAUDERDALE FL
Barry, great advice. I have been contemplating such a system in my 66 a/c coupe. I have a pair of 4 inch speakers mounted in the stock location. Do you think that is enough if I use a sub-woofer as well and an amp? The radio is a converted Kenwood unit.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,106
Likes: 38
From: Newark DE
Ken
normally I'd say no, 4' speakers are really just too small and as soon as you try to turn the sound up enough to overcome ambient noise they are going to start to break up. BUT, without doing something custom such as the kickpannels I suggested for Panchop than they are about the best you are going to be able to do and keep the interior stock looking.
About all i can recommend is to hook the amp to them and give them a try. If they sound ok to you than you are OK and it will work. If it doesn't, than you need to go to a larger speaker down on the kickpanels.
normally I'd say no, 4' speakers are really just too small and as soon as you try to turn the sound up enough to overcome ambient noise they are going to start to break up. BUT, without doing something custom such as the kickpannels I suggested for Panchop than they are about the best you are going to be able to do and keep the interior stock looking.
About all i can recommend is to hook the amp to them and give them a try. If they sound ok to you than you are OK and it will work. If it doesn't, than you need to go to a larger speaker down on the kickpanels.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,106
Likes: 38
From: Newark DE
Originally Posted by panchop
cool dude. i'll start looking at speakers tommorow. my amp "bridges" so i can use that for the subwoofer. think i'll print out your letter and bring it with me. LOL
using your existing amp will definitely save a few bucks
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,106
Likes: 38
From: Newark DE
look over their amps, 10" subs, and speakers for the front - you can't go wrong with this line!
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_p...hp?page_id=134
try this for a reasonably priced electonic crossover - all you need is a simple 2-way electronic crossover
http://www.coustic.com/products/index.cfm
excellent wires for your speaker wires, interconnects(RCA cables), power wires, fuse systems, etc:
http://www.streetwires.com/
other very excellent brands of amps
http://www.xtant.com/html/
http://www.precisionpower.com/
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/home/
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_p...hp?page_id=134
try this for a reasonably priced electonic crossover - all you need is a simple 2-way electronic crossover
http://www.coustic.com/products/index.cfm
excellent wires for your speaker wires, interconnects(RCA cables), power wires, fuse systems, etc:
http://www.streetwires.com/
other very excellent brands of amps
http://www.xtant.com/html/
http://www.precisionpower.com/
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/home/
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,761
Likes: 138
From: Clinton Township MI
Cruise-In III Veteran
BarryK,
Thank you for the walkthrough and detail you provided here. I too would like to improve the sound in my '5. I have the Custom Autosound radio and twin cone front speaker. So, I'll be building on from this.
Appreciate the insight you provided.
Thanks!
Jim
Thank you for the walkthrough and detail you provided here. I too would like to improve the sound in my '5. I have the Custom Autosound radio and twin cone front speaker. So, I'll be building on from this.
Appreciate the insight you provided.
Thanks!
Jim
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 0
From: Hawaii
Barry,
Thanks for all the good information. Now you got me to thinking about my next "necessary" sound upgrade project that absolutely needs to get done. But first it's the body work, engine rebuild, dash upgrade, headlight rebuild, paint, etc, etc, etc. Does it ever end?????
Thanks for all the good information. Now you got me to thinking about my next "necessary" sound upgrade project that absolutely needs to get done. But first it's the body work, engine rebuild, dash upgrade, headlight rebuild, paint, etc, etc, etc. Does it ever end?????
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,106
Likes: 38
From: Newark DE
65 & 327
my pleasure. I always have to ask so many questions about everything on these cars that it's nice to be able to contribute a little bit back for a change
If I can help you guys when you are ready to do something just let me know and i'll see if I can offer any info that may be helpful for you.
it's been a number of years since I was in the car audio industry and much of the equipment has changed but overall design theory and accoustics stay the same
my pleasure. I always have to ask so many questions about everything on these cars that it's nice to be able to contribute a little bit back for a change
If I can help you guys when you are ready to do something just let me know and i'll see if I can offer any info that may be helpful for you.
it's been a number of years since I was in the car audio industry and much of the equipment has changed but overall design theory and accoustics stay the same
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,106
Likes: 38
From: Newark DE
i did more system design and tuning of the final systems than installations, but I know my installers used a variety of materials depending on the final object to be built Brutal.
For kickpanels, you could use styrofom and cut and shave it to your desired shape than use other pieces as a mount for the speaker. Than you need a covering to hold the fiberglass that will go on top. As a covering, something such as cheese cloth can work - it has the advantage of being easily stretched tight across the front of the kickpanel, will createa nice smooth surface once the fiberglass is applied.
you could also use think plywood such as 1/4" as your back piece, build up the speaker mount with a monting ring and "legs" make from other oieces of 1/4" plywood, than again cover it with cheesecloth and lay down your fiberglass.
when built, if you don't want a painted fiberglass "look" to it you can than cover the entire front with a nice material to blend in better with the interior of your car.
we never used anything thinner than 1/4" but possibly 1/8" wood may work also since all the real strength will come from the fiberglass anyway.
For kickpanels, you could use styrofom and cut and shave it to your desired shape than use other pieces as a mount for the speaker. Than you need a covering to hold the fiberglass that will go on top. As a covering, something such as cheese cloth can work - it has the advantage of being easily stretched tight across the front of the kickpanel, will createa nice smooth surface once the fiberglass is applied.
you could also use think plywood such as 1/4" as your back piece, build up the speaker mount with a monting ring and "legs" make from other oieces of 1/4" plywood, than again cover it with cheesecloth and lay down your fiberglass.
when built, if you don't want a painted fiberglass "look" to it you can than cover the entire front with a nice material to blend in better with the interior of your car.
we never used anything thinner than 1/4" but possibly 1/8" wood may work also since all the real strength will come from the fiberglass anyway.
Moderator
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 7,117
Likes: 51
From: Dove Mountain Arizona
I put a Kenwood customautosound stereo in mine. I installed their dual cone front speaker and run it off the deck. I put a 200W amp in the tool well (pass side) and run the rear two 6X9 tri-axial Sony's in boxes velcro'd to the carpet up against the rear wall. A 6 disc changer fits nicely in the glove box. This unit will overpower the SweetThunder 2.25" side pipes with the top down on the freeway. 
Either way you're still deaf after a short ride. 
Either way you're still deaf after a short ride.
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver BC
Subwoofer
Barry,
Great info and well put. Kick panels are the only way to go (no rears needed) and you can get them fabricated at your local car audio place for about $150. That's what I did, with Infinity Kappa components, Phoenix Gold amp and my Panasonic head unit w/remote mounted in the glove box. I put in an IR repeater so I don't have to open the glove box every time (will probably convert to an iPod soon).
But here's my question to you. I am going to experiment and put my JL 10" into the storage well. I am mounting it to an MDF board cut to fit as a cover for the well and will Dynamat the interior of the well. Any thoughts? I may have to Dynamat the underside of the well as well!
Great info and well put. Kick panels are the only way to go (no rears needed) and you can get them fabricated at your local car audio place for about $150. That's what I did, with Infinity Kappa components, Phoenix Gold amp and my Panasonic head unit w/remote mounted in the glove box. I put in an IR repeater so I don't have to open the glove box every time (will probably convert to an iPod soon).
But here's my question to you. I am going to experiment and put my JL 10" into the storage well. I am mounting it to an MDF board cut to fit as a cover for the well and will Dynamat the interior of the well. Any thoughts? I may have to Dynamat the underside of the well as well!