Down the road I was thinking I might want to go to a LS1 or LS2.. what kind of project am I looking at? What are the main differences between the LT1, LS1, LS2, etc.? Are any of these near direct "bolt ins"? I know there are some issues with bolt pattern and input shaft lengths, but I assume there are some adapter plates that make this easy? What about fitment in the engine compartment?

 

The LS1 is an all aluminum 5.7 liter engine, and the LS2 is s 6.0 liter version of the same engine. The LS1 was used in all the C5 Corvettes and 97-02 Camaros and Trans-Am's. The LS2 is used in the new Corvette, the SSR and the 05 GTO. It puts out 400+ horsepower compared to the mid-300's of the LS1. I have both engines in Early Corvettes, the LS1 in a 59, and a LS2 in a 65, and they are both good engines. The LT1 was more of an evolution of the standard smallblock, and is a cast iron engine. The LT1 is a direct bolt-in and the LS engines are almost as easy. On the LS engines, you need to use a set of engine mount plates that are available from a number of sources. These plates will allow standard early GM mounts to be bolted to the engine, and both the engine and trans will sit in the same location and bolt up to the stock mounting locations. The late model 6 speeds will not clear the tunnell without some fiberglass surgery, but the late model automatics will clear fine. The 4L60E automatic trans is a 4 speed, lockup. overdrive trans, and is controlled by the PCM. The LS2 also is a drive-by-wire throttle, and has no direct connection between the throttle peldal and the engine throttle body. The LS2 engines are in short supply in the salvage market, since they have been out for only a year. The salvage market is the only cost-effective way to do one of these projects, since the cost of all the little bits and pieces will kill you if you were to buy new. The only way to go is to buy a full drivetrain pullout with engine, trans, harness, computer, throttle pedal, and all accessories. I paid $7500 for my LS2 drivetrain, but it came out of a brand-new car that was damaged in a train derailment, and it had no miles on it.

Regards, John McGraw

 

heck, if you gotta start modifying for the engine to bolt in, don't do things half assed, get one of those new 427 small blocks, what do they call them? Z06 or something?

Doug

 

I wanted to do this conversion as well. In the end, I was afraid there would be too many "little things" that would not make the conversion worth while for me. I ended up doing a SuperRam from Accel....Those LS motors sure do look nice sitting in there though......

 

They call that puppy the LS7! It is 500 horsepower, and people are already getting at least 60 hp more than that by just getting rid of the 'cats and putting a decent set of headers on it.

The real problem with the LS7, is the limited availability of it. Only a couple become available every couple of weeks, and there are people with standing orders for them. The bare engine sells for $13,000 and includes NOTHING but the engine! no accessories, no PCM, no brackets, and no harness! I was seriously was considering one for my current LS2 project, but I was not ready for the cost or the pain that would be involved with installing one. There is nobody who has cracked the factory PCM yet, so reprograming one is not an option. For now you would need to stick with one of the race computers to operate it, and it would not have some of the self-tuning loops or diagnostics that the factory PCM would give you. It appeared to me that by the time you bought the engine, trans, fabricated tank and lines for the dry sump system, and got all the accesories and electronics, you could easily end up with $20,000+ in it, so I went down the LS2 path.
I can throw a magnacharger on the LS2 to get to the same power, and still be 6 to 7 thousand ahead.
Rich Lagasse is doing a LS7 in a 63 coupe right now, and my hat's off to him, it is going to be one hell of a job, but he will be the only one on his block with one for a long while!

Regards, John McGraw

 

I was a little apprehensive on my first one, but once you have done one, you will probably never go back to any other engine! It really went easy, and the car starts on the first rotation every time, idles like a champ, gets 25+ mpg, and runs hard enough to scare the poop out of you! They sure DO look good too:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...3/P0001394.jpg

Regards, John McGraw

 

Nice looking engine John...fits like a glove...

 

If you are a penny-pinching kind of guy, and have some engine building skills you can piece a stock LS1 together for less than $1500 by purchasing peoples OE cast-offs in the C5 parts section.

There have also been numerous complete 550 + hp engines for sale in the 4-$6,000 dollar range.

You can even get a carb setup through Edelbrock to get rid of all the wiring, fuel pump, etc. issues. According to the magazines it gives up no driveability or performance compared to the EFI.

The little 346 LS6 in my C5 puts out 491 rwhp and was about $7500 soup to nuts.

Dart also makes an LS block that can be assembled as big as 454ci
It also has bosses for traditional Chevy side mounts.

Right now the LS engine opportunities are endless.

 

Bob,
You are absolutley right! The LS engines offer almost limitless possibilities. That is why I passed on the LS7. To pay that much for 500 HP was kind of silly when I could get that much for a lot less. The only reason for the LS7 is to have something that everyone else does not have, but the truth is, that I couldn't even begin to use that much HP with the tires that will fit within the stock wheelwells of the 65. I think that I will find 425 HP more than sufficient for my needs.



Regards, John McGraw

 

John M,

I am very interested in the LS1 conversion into my mid-year. It sounds too good - performance, reliabliltiy, economy, and bad a$$ looks when you open that hood.

1. Is the LS1 (LS6?) transmission bolt pattern the standard old chevy bolt pattern?

2. Would you happen to have a write up on this finer points of this conversion procedure or point me in a direction to find one?

Thanks.

 

I would like to keep this cost effective.. I have the orig engine that came in the car.. and the engine in it now is a 327 from a 68.. sort of a beater motor.. but good enough. When it dies I want to replace it.. I would like to have fuel injection, and something that goes with corvette.. and I think the LS1 and LS2 look great, and can get a decent amount of money for not a whole lot of $. I love the LS7, but it isn't cost effective at all. I know how all the little BS can add up, and I would like to get something the SERIOUSLY bolts in with my current steering box, radiator, etc etc.. I have been through moving everything, replacing brackets, etc etc.. to make something fit and I don't want to do that..

 

One good place to start is The LS1 Tech discussion board. There is a conversion section over there with many people who are putting a LS1 in everything from a Corvette to a Mazda RX7! Standard Chevrolet bellhousing bolt patterns will fit right up to the LS1, but most people who do this swap will upgrade to a newer 6 speed trans or a 4 speed auto to get the performance, and the economy. The .66 overdrive ratio on the top end can make for fuel economy that will mke you the envy of all your Corvette buddies. The ultra-low first gear will make a street-light bandit out of even a mild LS1.

The swap is pretty straight forward. You will need the adapter plates for the motor mount, you will need the PCM reprogramed to delete all the unused functions, a new engine wiring harness (you can rework your old LS1 harness if you are a real cheapskate, and are electronically inclined), and a new fuel tank with internal high pressure pump. Don't let people talk you into using an external pump, you will not be happy, trust me! You will need to make some decisions on gauges since modern drivetrains do not support mechanical tachs or spedos, but there are options out there. You can really get carried away, or you can do it pretty simple, but it is not that hard of a swap once you get past the intimidation of the electronic controls. GM even makes a basic harness and swap manual with lots of good info and parts numbers. If you start adding lots of accessories like power steering and A/C, you will probably need to go to Speed and Performance for some of their brackets and accessories, since space gets real tight under the hood with all these accessories. The 59 used all S&P accessories, but my 65 went to C5 front suspension, which opened up enough foom between the suspension to fit stock accessories. The space between the stock A-arms on a C2 is pretty limited if you want all the power options.

Regards, John McGraw

 

The LS 1 looks good, but is it still a good motor if I want to run a carb? I would like to keep it simple and avoid modern technology. Any problems with this? I have a nice L98 I was going to hop up and put in my 68 RS/SS Camaro, then came the 64 vert.......Is the LS 1 much better than the old aluminum head L98?

 

What is the issue with external pumps?

Thanks,
Doug

 

Doug,
The pump for a LS engine is a very high pressure pump (60+ PSI), and are very noisy when you use an external. In addition, the cooling afforded to an in-tank pump not only keeps it quiet by being covered in fuel, but also keeps it cool. These pumps are very unforgiving about being run dry, and using an original tank with an external pump, will let the pump suck air all the time when accelerating and cornering. The aftermarket tanks that are made for swaps, have spiral-shaped wells within the tank to provide a sump that stays full of fuel much better.
There is a good reason that all the car makers run in-tank fuel pumps on their EFI engines.

Regards, John McGraw

 

Edelbrock makes an intake and carb setup with a MSD ignition box to run the engine, and all reports are that it runs very well once dialed in.
That being said, I would think that you would invest way more in converting the LS1 to carb, then you ever would by using the PCM and injection. One of the real advantages of the LS1 is the integrated engine management system, and if you delete it, then you have lost most of the reason for using that engine. A smallblock of similar displacement, will probably run just about as good as a LS1 converted to carb. The electronics are a little intimidating when you first look at it, but in reality, they are pretty simple and run forever with little of no attention. The PCM constantly adjusts the fuel/air mixture to offer the proper ratio for any set of conditions, it is constantly adjusting the timing to prevent any engine knock, as well as dozens of other functions. I can't imagine that I will ever build another engine that is not a closed loop EFI, unless it is a restoration.

Regards, John McGraw

 

If your rooting around for LS engines don't forget about the LS6! The 02-04 versions crank out 405 HP and seem to be more readily available than the newer LS2 as John mentioned above.

I would not be so quick to bad mouth the LS7 for the money.....13K as compared to a LS1/2/6 with a 5K + supercharger plus the necessary tuning so that you don't lean out and blow that sucker up is not a bad deal, and it's BRAND NEW! As John mentioned, the LS7 easily makes 550 hp and hops right over the 600 mark with a VERY streetable cam and headers..that's some serious ponies Yeah, it cost a couple of pennies more but when you end up with a motor with titanium rods, dry sump oiling and heads that flow like a hurricane not to mention 427 cubic inches of total bad a$$ smallblock, what's not to like! It's only money

 

To me the only negative with the LSX engines to me is eye appeal. It is pretty boring looking

The carb set-up looks pretty cool. The intake has the SB2 look to it and looks pretty trick.



BG has a tripower available for the LSX engines now too.

The LS7 is awesome, but to me it is too expensive horsepower per dollar wise

With the introduction of the Dart blocks and various aftermarket heads you could probably build a 600 RWHP engine for 13 grand.

My N/A LS6 based 346 makes more HP than the 427 LS7 and was half the price. Had a 2yr 24k mile warranty too.

 

Ok, here is what I found so far..

Have to change the motor mounts to accept LS motors.

Use another tranny other than the 4spd (is there an adapter that will let me use the 4spd AND bolt up the the engine?

Shorten Driveshaft

Different Radiator??? I didn't understand this part, but something about a reverse flow radiator??

Converting certain guages.. are there kits for this that can use my current guages or do I have to go completely aftermarket?

What did I forget??

 

ttt