Help Birdcage Rust
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 203
Likes: 11
From: Houston
Help Birdcage Rust
Found this rust in the birdcage in my 65 coupe that I recently aquired. It is located in the lower corner of the windshield on each side. What I need is some expert advice on repairing it. How to repair it, approx cost, how much time involved and anyone in Houston that is capable of doing it. Thanks, Mike 
Last edited by Jetrench; Jun 25, 2006 at 03:16 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 442
From: Southwest MI
i've never seen a C2 without at least a little light surface rust in that area....... but yes, that's a structural concern, that needs to be addressed. big job, & considering what quality work costs nowadays ($/hr) :-( .
what does it look like at the bottom? (take a light and look foward & downword in the lower door hinge holes....)
what does it look like at the bottom? (take a light and look foward & downword in the lower door hinge holes....)
Last edited by 66427-450; Jun 24, 2006 at 08:25 PM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,576
Likes: 118
From: Conroe Texas
Hi Mike,
Give Nabers Motors a call, they can probably fix you up. They painted my 62 back in 1982, and you saw how nice it still was in the mid 80s. They are the best in the business at mid-year vette restorations. If you talk to Ken or Gary, tell them my mom sent you, that probably has more weight than my name as my parents have known them since the mid 60s.
Their number is 713-664-5018 and they are located at 5111 Ashbrook Dr, Houston, TX
Looks like someone had to have known the car had bad birdcage rust, considering the under dash insulation and the A/C hose appear to have been recently replaced and whomever did that couldn't have missed all that rust.
I'm very sorry to see that you've gotten this bad deal, I hope you can get some restitution from the seller. I'd be worried about the bottom of the door hinge pillars as well, assuming it would be a collection point for all of the water that caused the rust in your photo.
Jeff
Give Nabers Motors a call, they can probably fix you up. They painted my 62 back in 1982, and you saw how nice it still was in the mid 80s. They are the best in the business at mid-year vette restorations. If you talk to Ken or Gary, tell them my mom sent you, that probably has more weight than my name as my parents have known them since the mid 60s.
Their number is 713-664-5018 and they are located at 5111 Ashbrook Dr, Houston, TX
Looks like someone had to have known the car had bad birdcage rust, considering the under dash insulation and the A/C hose appear to have been recently replaced and whomever did that couldn't have missed all that rust.
I'm very sorry to see that you've gotten this bad deal, I hope you can get some restitution from the seller. I'd be worried about the bottom of the door hinge pillars as well, assuming it would be a collection point for all of the water that caused the rust in your photo.
Jeff
Last edited by 62Jeff; Jun 24, 2006 at 09:48 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,798
Likes: 13
From: Southeastern VA
Dude,
That aint nothing but bad news. Is it as bad on the other side? Coupes also have drip rail rust problems, keep looking and find ALL trouble area's before making a decision to repair it. My first C2 vert had rust in the same spot, but yours is allot worse. This type of repair is difficult and very costly unless you want/and can do most of the work yourself.
1st. You have to find a good hunk of cage to use for the repair unless your a good fabricator and make the parts yourself.
2nd. You need to strip off the nose clip and most likely part of the cowl/firewall so you can weld the back side of the windshield and door post.
3rd. Find someone willing to do the work that you can't.
4th. Be willing to spend more than you can ever get back.
Advice, You can fix it, but it will cost you dearly. Best thing is to cut bait and find a car with a good cage. That's what I did. In the long run it will be cheaper losing some money on the resale than it would be to repair it. The more I looked at my first car the more I found wrong. I actually parted mine out and broke even! Best of luck with ever you decide.
That aint nothing but bad news. Is it as bad on the other side? Coupes also have drip rail rust problems, keep looking and find ALL trouble area's before making a decision to repair it. My first C2 vert had rust in the same spot, but yours is allot worse. This type of repair is difficult and very costly unless you want/and can do most of the work yourself.
1st. You have to find a good hunk of cage to use for the repair unless your a good fabricator and make the parts yourself.
2nd. You need to strip off the nose clip and most likely part of the cowl/firewall so you can weld the back side of the windshield and door post.
3rd. Find someone willing to do the work that you can't.
4th. Be willing to spend more than you can ever get back.
Advice, You can fix it, but it will cost you dearly. Best thing is to cut bait and find a car with a good cage. That's what I did. In the long run it will be cheaper losing some money on the resale than it would be to repair it. The more I looked at my first car the more I found wrong. I actually parted mine out and broke even! Best of luck with ever you decide.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,032
Likes: 2,587
From: Del Boca Vista FL
Oh yeah, you're in for it for repair. Ask me how I know (and my rust was in the B pillars.)
Unless you have a great body shop/metal working connection you are in an expensive situation.
Is it worth it to you? Do you want THAT car? Nothing wrong with wanting THAT car. Just be prepared to pay. And, IMHO, don't consider this or any other car to be an investment. It is a car. Drive it, enjoy it, sell it when you feel like it. Don't look at the car as a 401K.
Rich
Unless you have a great body shop/metal working connection you are in an expensive situation.
Is it worth it to you? Do you want THAT car? Nothing wrong with wanting THAT car. Just be prepared to pay. And, IMHO, don't consider this or any other car to be an investment. It is a car. Drive it, enjoy it, sell it when you feel like it. Don't look at the car as a 401K.
Rich
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,397
Likes: 35
Sorry about your predicament
Your best option may be to:
1. Sell the car - be up front about what you know
2. Do this if you can live with the $ loss
3. Do more homework next time before your next purchase
I suggest this because:
1. There are likely other significant and expensive problems lurking
2. The $ factor of trying to repair this
3. The aggrevation factor of dealing with restoration guys - if you do
decide to go ahead and get it done - get referances 1st
Your best option may be to:
1. Sell the car - be up front about what you know
2. Do this if you can live with the $ loss
3. Do more homework next time before your next purchase
I suggest this because:
1. There are likely other significant and expensive problems lurking
2. The $ factor of trying to repair this
3. The aggrevation factor of dealing with restoration guys - if you do
decide to go ahead and get it done - get referances 1st
Pro
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 673
Likes: 2
welcome to my world
From that picture I can tell you that you need at least the lower windshield frame and hinge pillars. Take a look here and you'll understand how I know. www.pbase.com/valrico64 I paid $1500 for the partial cage I found and full cages IF YOU CAN FIND ONE are advertised in the $3000-4000 price range. The estimate for my repair is $2500-5000, depending on what the shop runs into during the job. And of course it is all relative to what the shop charges per hour and the expected work time required. Now, the damage done to the body panels that have to be removed to expose the metal will cost you some repaint money, for me it will be an all-over paint job. The only reason I'm pursuing all this is because I paid so little for the car up front (I paid $5000) and I won't end up upside down with todays market values.
Chuck
Chuck
Last edited by valrico_stingray; Dec 22, 2011 at 10:54 AM.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 203
Likes: 11
From: Houston
HELP Birdcage Rust
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I am just sick about this. I traded for this car. It had a frame off restoration completed last year. Car was completely disassembled, engine and trans rebuild, frame powder coated, paint, interior etc. The drip rails were also replaced and that should have been a clue that I should have done more research before finally doing the deal. The owner had the bodywork and paint done and claims that he never saw the rust. That is very difficult to believe given the fact that the dash was out of the car including the center section and also the windshield. I am not going to rant about getting taken to the cleaners, what's done is done. I got an education and I think that it would be very beneficial for each forum member to read this thread. Thanks again guys, Mike Jeff, I'll call you tonight. 
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 442
From: Southwest MI
Originally Posted by Jetrench
I am just sick about this.......
If it's localized? ..... perhaps a skilled fabricator-welder could patch / repair it in-place? (or at least with minimal disassembly)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 5
From: Wheaton IL
If I was you, I'd start talking to some lawyers to see if you have a case. NO WAY could someone have restored the interior w/o seeing that rust like a blinking neon sign. I'm thinking (w/o no legal knowledge) that since the seller sold it as "frame off restored", damage to this extent shouldn't exist anywhere. I hate frivolous lawsuits but what that seller has done is extremely dirty. That's like selling a rebuilt engine with a cracked block. Sure it runs but you're going to have problems.
As far as repairs, unless you are experienced with fiberglass and metalworking, farm it out. It's a damn shame that wasn't fixed when the previous owner had the chance. I can't even imagine how you must feel. Good luck.
Brian
As far as repairs, unless you are experienced with fiberglass and metalworking, farm it out. It's a damn shame that wasn't fixed when the previous owner had the chance. I can't even imagine how you must feel. Good luck.
Brian
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,424
Likes: 619
From: northern CA
WOW .. The car looks FABULOUS! .. A body off resto and this severe corrosion damage wasn't 'seen'? .. That one IS hard to believe - especially, as already noted, the insulation appears to be new. .. It would seem the resto shop (if one was used) that did the frame-off should be suspect, too.
The previous owner can say whatever about what he 'knew'. The right thing to do would be for that guy to pony up for the birdcage repair - no less than 50-50, IMO.
With the visible corrosion as severe as it is it would seem likely that the bottom of the birdcage might also have issues. It seems inconceivable that the car will now have to be taken apart - after having just been gone through.
One possible 'fix' might be to bridge the area between the vertical pillar and windshield support with sheet metal. This assumes the vertical support is in reasonable condition. Construction paper can be used to make a template(s) to transfer onto sheet metal. The new metal should be extended well beyond the corroded areas, as much as possible. With the metal piece fitted in place enough pop rivets are used to secure it. Follow up TIG welding is good if the area can be accessed ok.
The previous owner can say whatever about what he 'knew'. The right thing to do would be for that guy to pony up for the birdcage repair - no less than 50-50, IMO.
With the visible corrosion as severe as it is it would seem likely that the bottom of the birdcage might also have issues. It seems inconceivable that the car will now have to be taken apart - after having just been gone through.
One possible 'fix' might be to bridge the area between the vertical pillar and windshield support with sheet metal. This assumes the vertical support is in reasonable condition. Construction paper can be used to make a template(s) to transfer onto sheet metal. The new metal should be extended well beyond the corroded areas, as much as possible. With the metal piece fitted in place enough pop rivets are used to secure it. Follow up TIG welding is good if the area can be accessed ok.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,142
Likes: 704
Don't give up !
How long have you had the car and from whom did you purchase it...private sale, dealer, E-Bay ?? This is an obvious fraud and depending on where you live, you should have some recourse. Please let us know . I'm sure something can be done about it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,257
Likes: 6
From: Mission Viejo California
Is is a shame but it isn't like the whole car will have to be dismantled. All of the inner corrosion should be repairable with only removal of the dash and the windshield.
The outer corrosion should only require removal of the cowl piece with realitively common seam bonding where the fenders will be cut from the hood opening to the door gap.
Since the car was so recently painted it shoud not be too difficult to match the paint in the repaired areas.
The car is so nice it deserves to be properly repaired.
The outer corrosion should only require removal of the cowl piece with realitively common seam bonding where the fenders will be cut from the hood opening to the door gap.
Since the car was so recently painted it shoud not be too difficult to match the paint in the repaired areas.
The car is so nice it deserves to be properly repaired.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,808
Likes: 24
From: Westport CT
Originally Posted by Seaside63
Is is a shame but it isn't like the whole car will have to be dismantled. All of the inner corrosion should be repairable with only removal of the dash and the windshield.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 203
Likes: 11
From: Houston
Rust
Did a little more inspection and diassembly earlier and here is what I found. Bottom of hinge pillar appears to be ok. It's kind of strange , I asked the guy who painted the car about the rust and he denied knowing anything about it. Guess he just didn't see it when he was replacing the drip rails. And then applying the filler around them. And then priming them. And then painting them. Mike 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,506
Likes: 3
From: Calhoun, GA_______ Let It Rock
I can't believe either of them can look you in the eye and tell you they didn't know about rust. 
The lieing about it would pizz me off more than the problem....almost. I put a main wiring harness in mine and removed/replaced the instrument cluster. Working on those two items alone gave me pretty good views of parts of the birdcage. Much less removing the ENTIRE console, windshield, etc...It had to be in CLEAR view of more than one set of eyes during all that work.
I would now REALLY be concerned about rust in the frame rails and sombrero area.
I and the rest of us, really feel for you on this. I hope you can fix it, enjoy it and not let it get you down on the car. It really looks outstanding in the cosmetic area.
The lieing about it would pizz me off more than the problem....almost. I put a main wiring harness in mine and removed/replaced the instrument cluster. Working on those two items alone gave me pretty good views of parts of the birdcage. Much less removing the ENTIRE console, windshield, etc...It had to be in CLEAR view of more than one set of eyes during all that work.I would now REALLY be concerned about rust in the frame rails and sombrero area.
I and the rest of us, really feel for you on this. I hope you can fix it, enjoy it and not let it get you down on the car. It really looks outstanding in the cosmetic area.