-T2-

Ok-- I'm in the market for a Vette, and, after much angst and sleepless nights, I've come over from the "dark" side :-) , and decided to forego a new Z06 in favor of a '66 or '67.

My dilema is, after months of researching the 2001-2002 vette, I am a tad under prepared to figure out EXACTLY what I want. I know that I like the '67 body style, aboslutly need a convertable, would love a 427, and preferrably would like side pipes.

Can anyone point to some resources where I can find detailed information about the available options packages for each of the C2 corvettes?

Any help/opinions would be very much appreciated.


[Modified by -T2-, 10:56 PM 9/2/2001]

pittsaj

This is a tough one :-)
You have found the right place...
The guys on this forum are great and I'm sure they will also chime in here..

First, be sure of what you want...
These two cars are miles apart in performance and refinements
The C-2's are indeed GREAT cars, but will never have the reliability and refinement of a new one..
Drive them both before making up your mind..
It depends on what you are after here..

I truley believe that both of these Vette's are classics in their own right...

Good luck with this decision

Tony


[Modified by pittsaj, 9:39 PM 9/2/2001]

67ratrag

Go to the book store, Barnes and Noble perhaps, and look at a "Corvette black book" which will have a listing of all the options for each year car.

Blkblt

Indeed, you are at the right place. You should get a lot of opinions. You also might go through the archives...what remains from the software changeout...for additional information.

As stated, the C2 and C5 are entirely different beasts, albeit real "Beasts". A C5 with all the modern, and generally reliable, technology almost drives itself, whereas a C2 must be driven; not to mention maintained, tuned, and pampered to a degree. :yesnod: :yesnod: Treat them right, and like "Magicmachines" on this forum illustrates, they can be driven anywhere, anytime. A mid-year doesn't have near the top-end of a C5 nor, in most cases, is it as quick (very close here sometimes, however). BUT, there are a zillion, rapidly depreciating C5s around. AND, the C2 has the very :cool: factor that even a ZO-6 can't touch....nada, no way!!

Research all you can, but before you make a mid-year purchase, get a C2 expert's opinion of the vehicle, or you may easily be :cry 'in lots.
********

********************
Jeff
Keep :seeya 'in....

kahuner

T2;

Welcome to The Forum!:seeya

Thought I'd pass along some of my thoughts regarding the purchase/ownership of a C2 based on my experiences over the first 7 months. I bought my first Corvette last Feb. which happened to be a '66 BB Coupe w/ sidepipes.

First, stay away from dealers! It's a sure fire way of getting financilly upside down! :smash: Secondly, don't fall in love with a particular car which was my first mistake. (Once the Seller fired up the engine with those sidepipes, I was a gonner!:cool:) Third, take a NCRS member or someone who's experienced with C2's with you to inspect the car you're interested in cause there is a lot of forgery out there! :smash: Your interest in a '67 will help due to the tank sticker.

Buying a '67 vs. a new Vette has it pros and cons but IMHO what makes the '67 the better choice (inspite of the bumpy, squeaky ride) is that it will most likely appreciate and you won't get lost in the crowd! :yesnod:

Good luck and remember that we warned you: "you're about to peg your fun meter! :cheers:

magicv8

I just got back from a 360 mile run to a winery in WI with another couple in a Miata roadster. My storage area holds more wine than their trunk. It was a 68-82 degree day with the top down all day - great fun.

Today it will get closer to 90 and if you want to compare driving a midyear to a new Corvette, IMO you will need A-C. It can be retrofit, but I would not spend money required for a show quality car, if I intended to retrofit A-C. Original A-C leaves you with good cooling and high maintenance cost for original parts and freon (like mine).

While I am dishing up opinions, I like 4 wheel disk brakes (also can be retrofit). Remember, any other common equipment (on a new Corvette) has to be retrofit. Cruise control and intermittent wipers aren't hard to put in without drilling holes. Orthopedic seats and a kick **** stereo are a little harder, but they can also be installed without using a drill on the car.


[Modified by magicmachines, 10:43 AM 9/3/2001]

67HEAVEN

-T2-

Glad to have you among us!

I've had my '67 for 34 years now....in fact its 35th birthday comes up on October 26th! Maybe I'll ask my wife to bake it a cake :blueangel:

True confession time: Raced it (drag, gymkhana/slalom, and club-track racing at Mosport/Shannonville/etc.) almost from the beginning. The General replaced the original short block under warranty (the good ol' 5 year /50,000), then I later blew up the replacement. Man we drove 'em hard back them. :crazy: :crazy:

Came close, over the years, to just selling it and all the spare parts and tires off......but a little voice inside my head said no. :nono:

Parked the car 16 years ago and forgot it until my 13 year old son started asking questions (two years ago) about the car he's never even heard run!!!! :confused:

Got me thinking....I haven't even seen one of these babies on the streets for years. My son's impression of Corvettes (based on his short life experience) is nice-looking luxury-type sporty-cars. I'm thinkin'....wait a minute.....I was there when Corvettes were the essence of cool.....back when they were noisy, rough-riding, hot (as in temperature) and real ground-pounders (especially in the case of the big blocks)! So now that I'm thinking again.....what to do about it?

Built a new two-car garage/workshop in the back yard and started the rebuild (wouldn't really be fair to call it restoration because this baby is way too mean to go back to stock......and besides the original short block is long gone to the crusher).

Figured it was time to introduce the boy to real Corvettes.....took him to Carlisle this year.....blew his 15-year-old mind! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

The weekend was capped off by the burnouts in the Saturday evening parade (in front of Gate 1).

All the way home it's, "Dad, can I help with the body-lift as soon as we get home??????" Look, son, your old man is gonna need a little rest after a weekend like this and 10 hours driving home.... :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

-T2- I guess the point of all this is......you'll never regret buying a C2 (as long as it's a reasonably solid car). You'll be way :cool: :cool: :cool:

[Modified by 67HEAVEN, 11:47 AM 9/3/2001]


[Modified by 67HEAVEN, 12:03 PM 9/3/2001]

-T2-

Thanks for all the tips-- I'll probably be bugging you guys over the next several months.

What originally turned me on to the C5 was that I rented one a few weeks ago on vacation-- an '01 convertable-- and instantly fell in love with the power and handling. My only other experiance with vettes was a '66 c2 with a 327 and, which I found --- *thirilling*, and a mid-80's c4 which was, well, lacking.
Going through my finances this weekend trying to justify getting an '02 z06, I realized that what I was lusting after was the fun of driving the car (the C5). I still don't really like the way it looks, and it is kinda fungible-- you see TONS of them on the road. Not terribly unique. I've always loved the way the '66 & '67 vettes looked, and I have some hot-rodding experiance from my high school days (another chevy, but that's a story for a different forum), so although not a master mechanic, I am not at a loss under the hood.

Anyway, I think I've settled on returning to my first love-- the '67 or '68 vete.
Could anyone point out the major distinctions for me? What engine options were available?

I don't consider myself a 'purist'-- I am not really looking for a matching-numbers car, or a car that will require me to tune the carberators on the side of the road (e.g., tri-carbs, which I experianced with the GTO). I am looking for something that I can enjoy, that is thrilling, and that will be enjoyable for both me and my wife.

I've also heard people throwing around the term "mid year '66". What does that refer to?

Also, I'd love to get the big block 427... but... do I need to run the car on high octane fuel? Does a 327 run on normal fuel? I seem to remember reading somewhere that the 427 had a compression ratio somewhere north of 13:1. I would imagine that pump 93 isn't going to cut it.


Anyway guys (and gals-- sorry) feel free to throw any of your opinions out-- I plan on taking my time doing this, so You'll probably be hearing a lot from me over the following months. I've purchased about a dozen vette books from B&N (including the black book-- thanks for the tip).

By the way, Blkblt, what an AMAZING car-- that picture is exactly what I fell in love with years ago. Would you care to share the specs on the car? I eat this stuff up.....

magicv8

63-67 cars are refered to as midyear Corvettes. The engine options for a 67 or a 68 would be 327 or 427. The cars have very similar frame, suspension, and drive train components. IMO only the base 327/300hp) engine will be happy on 87 octane unless you get one that has been modified (or do it yourself). I ordered a 350 from a factory rebuilder that is a 1970 350/370 long block with dished pistons. It is happy with 87 octane and can spin the tires in 4 gears. It cost me less than $1000 to do the whole swap job. That's the great thing about the old cars, no smog equipment or computers. If you want to change something, it is cheap and easy.

IMO a 68 is a high maintenance body. I understand that everything from the door handles and wiper cover to the interior door panels were first-year-body-style problems like the 63s and 84s. I have only ever owned a 63 and a 66, so you get hear-say about others.

Stingrr

First - Run! Save yourself AND your wallet!

That having been said, welcome to the world of Mid-years. There will be times, when some untraceable internal component decides to let go and leave you stranded by the side of the highway, providing a bit of entertainment for rush hour commuters. However, you won't regret purchasing a mid-year Vette - IMO, one of the best classic rides anyone could get. Unmistakable looks, 4-wheel discs ('65-67, anyway), and a thumping V8 - hard combo to beat. And so on ...

A '67 Vette is the last year for the mid-year body style; the "Coke-bottle" shape of the C3 Vette started with the '68 model year. Big difference in looks and in value, with the former distinctly more expensive. Aside of the body style, the '67 and '68 share a lot under the skin - same frame, drivetrain, brakes, etc. They also had the same engine offerings - a 300-hp 327, a 350-hp 327, and three 427s - 390, 400, and 435 hp. All except the 435 hp version had hydraulic lifters, and the two 327's and the 390-hp 427 had a single Holley 4-bbl carb, while the other two 427's had a three 2-barrel carb setup (the famed "Tri Power" option). As the others here have suggested, you should invest in some literature to get a better idea of what was available in the good old days - the Black Book is a great start.

If you're not looking for a matching-numbers car, then your chances of getting fleeced by an unscrupulous individual are decreased. Because of the immense popularity of the big-block Vettes and "matching numbers," there are quite a few big-block Vettes with "original engines" running around which actually started life as a small-block car. Engine restamping, to make a car "matching numbers," is also known to happen. All in the name of value.

As for octane requirements, the Chevy engines in these old Vettes are somewhat sensitive to ping, especially the small-blocks. The 300 and 390 hp versions have the lowest octane requirements, but all will require unleaded premium and an octane booster, or 100+ racing fuel, if you want to run the car with original pistons and factory distributor settings. However, many, if not most, of these old Vettes have been gone through, so the engines probably have a lower compression ratio, which makes the cars more driveable. Compression ratios ranged from 10.25:1 (390 hp) to 11:1 (435 hp). The famed L88, of which only a handful were made, had a compression ratio of 12.5:1, I believe.

Good luck!

Kid_Again

welcome to the land of true believers :seeya

...i'll give you some advice i got when i bought my cars..like kahuner said, DON'T START the engine (especially if it has side pipes) before you check out the car.....a major problem with these cars is a rusted frame, just behind the doors at the frame "kick up"....."numbers matching" is increasingly becoming a fairy tale so if you go NOM, you'll save money and likely ('though not certainly, given the number of backyard idiot mechanics out there) have a more reliable car.....'67 big block roadster, eh?......i think you should pack a thick wallet on that one....check out the local papers and i think you'll see most midyears available are small blocks...also, consider the web at autotrader online..i found my '66 that way.............my guess, if you want that '67, you're in the $35-40K range...check out the ads and let us know...........

...i also started out wanting a '67 bb but just went bullpoopie over the '66 427/390 hp car i got....'though '65 was the first year for the big block, that was a 396 and you're talking $40K for a driver....


...the best advice of all is to find your local corvette club and see if you can cajole/incent the club's midyear expert to go with you to take a look at a car you are interested in


good luck and welcome again!!!!! :cheers:


[Modified by Kid_Again, 1:26 PM 9/3/2001]

-T2-

sorry stinggr-- there was an error in my post. I meant to ask what the differences were between the '66 and '67. I see a lot of preference for the '66. Any reason why?

Ahh-- just started up my old '80 chevy. Nothing like the sound of a 454 pulsing through an H-pipe and twin glasspaks. Now-- if I could get the thing to look like a '67 vette and not a brick, I'd be in business. . .

Stingrr

T2, I was wondering about the 67/68 question - didn't make much sense as you seemed to be focused on the midyears, but I thought maybe you were comparing the two different styles

Why folks seem to prefer the '66 ... well, it could be for any of several reasons. One is that, all else being equal, the '67 will cost more than the '66 - some folks say it's because the '67 has the aura of being the last year of its kind, others say it's because the body has the least amount of ornamentation and so looks the cleanest, etc. I'm risking starting a flame war, but hopefully the readers here will understand my point :p: Also, there were more '66s made (27,720 coupes and convertibles) than '67s (22,940 total), so the '66 is slightly more common, therefore a bit cheaper. Bottom line, a '66 will be slightly less expensive and so more affordable for a lot of potential buyers, especially when you consider the astronomical asking prices of the '67 435-hp cars.

Another reason - especially when you talk about big block Vettes with original drivetrains - is that the '66 model had the option of an L72 427. This is a single-carb, 450-hp (later advertised as 425 hp, for insurance reasons) engine that THUMPS and doesn't have the high maintenance requirements of the tri-carb setup on the 67's. I recall one contemporary auto magazine making the comment that a '66 with the L72 could actually edge out a '67 with the L71 (tri-carb 435 hp) in a drag race, all else being equal.

The '66 model came from the factory with one of four engine options - a 300-hp or 350-hp 327, or a 390-hp or 450-hp 427. The first three carried over to the '67 model year, with the addition of the two tri-carb 427s.

-T2-

Looking around a little, I'm noting around $25k to $35k for a '66 convert w/ side pipes and a 327ci/350hp.
Any idea what a '68 BB would run, average? Doesn't have to be matching numbers, decent condition, but definitly in "runable" condition.

kahuner

I'd like to add one more reason to Stingerr's list as to why '67's are more expensive than '66's, and that is the tank sticker. With as much forgery as there is with high dollar cars, it's easier to distinguish a true BB car from a conversion.

Regarding your budget, buy as much car as you can afford. Once you start looking at several cars they'll all seem to be the same price, or within a couple thousand, but they all will not have the same amount of work done to them in an effort to restore to car back to a sound condition. (Complete suspension rebuilds, interior etc.) Your first inclination will be to buy the cheaper and do some of the work yourself. I'd recommend that you buy the cars at the other end of the scale, with the work already having been completed. It's a better value.

Take myself for example.:rolleyes: Found a '66 427/425, paid too much and I've already exceeded my budget of $7K in those little fix-it-up jobs! And the engine needs a total rebuild!:nopity

I'm sure that you'll be coming up on several more crossroads in the decision making process with value for your dollar being one of the biggest. So your last question; does $25~$30K sound right? It depends.

Just thought of something else. If you happen to be browsing on Collector Car Trader and use the price checker feature, DON'T!:smash:

The program takes all of the prices in the ads and averages them. THAT INCLUDES ALL OF THE ADS FROM PROTEAM! (Another one of my mistakes!)

Kid_Again

...again agree with kahuner......go with a car that somebody else has invested a fortune and gotten tired of trying to make it perfect.....i still think that if you're patient, you can get a '66 big block driver for $30-35K (390hp)...you'll only get a fouranaquarter basket case at that price :nono:

Blkblt

Gots to make another reply on this thread....

LISTEN TO KAHUNER. Determine what you want and what you want it for, look (first; before listening...) at a number of cars, then buy as much 'Vette as you can afford out of the chute. I paid a few grand more for my Silver Beast (1966; 427; L72) but cosmetically it was almost a show car, and it was a great driver from the get-go (and it was MONSTEROUSLY HUGE amounts LESS than a similarly optioned '67... :yesnod: ). The previous 2 owners had redone the entire suspension, most of the interior, the paint and the top of the motor (valves, heads, roller rockers). I just put a proper TI coil on her (a separate thread on this Forum), and changed out the power steering pump, waterpump and timing set (last week). Other than than that and some minor things like horns and wiper motor and a louder exhaust system ( :D) , I have had a quick starter and a reliable, straight and fast runner for the last 8000 miles or so. And, she runs :cool: also.... I keep her tuned myself (thank-you Lars) and can do, maybe, 75% of the wrench-turning on her, which satisfies my occasional desire to get grease smeared and breath fresh, volatile petro-fumes under jackstands :crazy:

But, most of all, I love to just go out, turn the key, listen to her thump to life, and take her out on the road, without many worries and whenever I wish....... THAT is what THIS is all about after all the :bs is cooked away..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Again...good luck.
********

********************
Jeff
ÒThe Silver BeastÓ. Ô66, L72
Saving it - :seeya :seeya :seeya


[Modified by Blkblt, 8:29 PM 9/3/2001]

JL66REDCPE

I know some will feel that I am comiting blasphemy with this post however here goes. Now before I get blasted, please keep in mind that I am a motor head and do 90% of my own work on our cars and tractors.

BUY THE C5 !! A used one may be the better route.

You will drive the C5 way more than the C2 for the following reasons;

The C5 is more reliable and comes with an extended warranty. If something breaks it's back to the dealer or call the warranty service as opposed to you fixing it. You are going to want to buy a lift if you buy the C2. If you buy a big block and want to drive it long distance to shows (like carlisle, bloomington, and mid ammerica fun fest) you will need a trailer. If you dont have a truck you will now need one to pull the trailer. I know there is someone on this forum who actually drives coast to coast however that is very rare and he must be a good mechanic with an exceptional C2. The C5 is more comfortable. The C2's sidepipes leave you smelling like gas and are very loud. You may have a hard time getting your wife / girlfriend / significant other to ride wth you especially if they have a bad back. Forget listening to the radio due to noise. The A/C in the mid year cars does not work very well. There is a tremendous amount of heat generated with a big block car that ends up in the passenger compartment. If you get a big block, you will have to mix racing gas and pump gas. Racing gas is now $5.00 a gallon. You are always aware of the big block overheating and end up watching the temperature gage constantly. The big block uses gas like you wouldnt believe. The C2 does not handle very well unless you are going in a straight line. Here is the ritual after a drive in the big block - enter garage, shut off car, open hood, shut off battery, let car cool down usually over night, in the moring check oil, dust off and clean car, put car cover on.

good luck

john lolli

PS - Thanks for asking, however, my 66 big block midyear coupe is not for sale.

kahuner

Well John, so much for the rest of us C2 Forum members thinking you'd make an excellent chairman for the upcoming membership drive! Where in the heck did all of those darker side feelings come from?

You're going at this C2 ownership thing as if your moto was: "it hurts so good, quit it somemore!" :D And your car isn't for sale?

Quote: "The sidepipes leave you smelling like gas and you may have a hard time getting your girlfriend or wife to ride with you." My experience has been just the opposite! The rumble of the pipes with some 3 sec. 0-60 attempts, leaves them with a, well......"lather'd up animal" so to speak! If a woman doesn't want to ride in the car, don't change cars, get a different woman! :lol: :yesnod: Nothing worse than to be with a woman that's a "TOM"! It's an acronym for "Turd of Misery"!

I'm just kidding John. :cheers: I can't disagree with any of your points. Ya caught me by surprise though!

MasterDave

Love mine, would drive it anywhere. Very dependable. I agree with one thing for sure... Air Cond. Very hot inside even with the top down.