I will be putting a TKO 600 5 speed in my 63 vert next week.I am trying to figure out if my driveshaft angle is different when I install the new tranny what angle should I adjust to?
1. The old angle before I removed the driveshaft? (If its correct)
2. Adjust to a close to zero?
3. What angle were they built with at the factory? (I cant find specs)
4. Trial and error? (Adjust as I go) AKA- vibe checks!

Thanks for any input in advance

 

With an IRS system, the output shaft of the transmission should be exactly parallel to the input shaft of the differential. The verticle is easy to set with shims. Use a magnetic angle finder to match the two. The horizontal I set using a pair of straight edges perpendicular to the shafts. Adjust the side to side position to make them parallel.

 

This is kind of what I was thinking its just kind of hard to get a straight level surface at the tranny and the differential. I was thinking I could put a digital protractor on the middle section of the driveshaft and shim each end or one end as close to a zero degree,s reading as possible. I realize these cars are old I am just trying to avoid high speed vibrations.
Thanks for your input!

 

Use the oil pan rails for the trans leveling, and use a large 1/2" drive socket extended down from a rear end U-Joint end cap (with the end cap pointing down).

Plasticman

 

I found some driveshaft angle info that reads one to three degrees.
The closer to one degree the better but less than one can cause premature needle bearing failure because they will not rotate enough to stay loose.

Thanks for the reading surface info Plasticman

 

That's correct for a live straight axle where the pinion angle changes through an arc when loaded. With an IRS, this doesn't happen. A magnetic angle finder is the easiest way I've found to do this job. Less pieces and less chance of error.

I don't understand about using the oil pan rails for leveling. You're not after leveling the engine, but matching the angles of the input vs output shafts. On an IRS, it is usually easier to alter the angle of the engine/trans than the angle of the differential (longer distance between mounting points). The exhaust hanger acts like a shim to raise the tail of the transmission. On side exhaust cars, instead of the hanger, a rectangular shim is used.

 

No

You're not after leveling the drive shaft, you don't care, (within reason) if the driveshaft sits at an angle as long as the input shaft of the differential is exactly parallel to the output shaft of the transmission. That parallel, especially in solid axle leaf spring suspensions, will be at an angle to the ground. This doesn't matter. Also, the differential and trans shafts do not need to sit in the same axis, only parallel.

One caviate to all of this, the yolks on the driveshafts need to be properly phased inline when the driveshaft is made. If they are out of phase, this will cause vibration.

A little education about U joints
Take a shaft with one U joint in the middle. Slowly rotate it with both ends exactly inline, or in the same axis. Both ends will rotate at exactly the same speed. If held constant, both ends will rotate constantly. Now if you continue to turn one end constantly, but you bend the driveshaft at the U joint to form an angle, the output shaft no longer rotates constantly. It instead speeds up and slows down depending on the position of the U joint at any given point in the rotation. The AVERAGE is still the same. The greaster you make the angle, the greater the accelleration/decelleration becomes. Now think about reversing which one you are rotating. If you instead drove the output shaft at the same accellerating/decellerating speed as it was driven before, the former input shaft would now be the output shaft, but it again would be rotating constantly, but you need to be accellerating/decellerating the input shaft. This is what the second U joint of the system accomplishes. It reverses the accelleration/decelleration of the intermediate shaft resulting in a constant velocity out. As you may have caught, both ends have to accelleraste/decellerate at the same rate but exactly opposite. This is where the phasing of the joints on the driveshaft come in. As long as they are exactly inline, and the input angle exactly matches the output angle, the accelleration/decelleration will be cancelled out. The two end shafts will be turning constantly but the middle shaft, the drive shaft as we call it, will be accellerating/decellerating.

 

I have tried on more than one occasion to put a Tremec in my 63 with no success. Others say they have done it and are pleased with the results. The problem I have had is getting the trans high enough in the tunnel to have correct ujoint angles (like what rgs has just explained). I just could not live with the dull vibration. I also think any vibration is magnified in a coupe vs a rag top so you might be happy.

Good luck with your install SSS

 

Well, working in NVH and Powertrain I've had experience with some of this and I think you guys are doing a good job explaining things. We had some neat little custom tools we used. We had kits to replace the center sleeve of a bushing by adding a eccentric so the pinion angle could be adjusted. (For RWD solid axle)

I thought Plasticman was pointing out the rails should be parallel to the output shaft.

I think if you minimize the PLRO you will be fine, but I guess the previous post is a concern.

 

Ned, this thread brings up something interesting from the '67-'69 Camaro side of my hobby. For some reason, the driveshaft U-joints on the '69 Z/28 were designed about 15*-20* out of normal plane-matching phase. Original driveshafts from all other '69 Camaro powertrain combinations were in phase, but NOT the Z/28, and no one seems to know why. Any thoughts on why this was the case?

 

Here are some good links with great info Helped me get my 61 to stop vibrating at highway speeds.
http://www.4x4wire.com/tech/pinionangle/
http://www.iedls.com/ptsetup.html

 

The oil pan rails will be parallel to the trans output shaft and therefore at the same angle (for comparison to the pinion angle on the rear end) per NedP1's observation. This is the easiest location to determine the trans output angle with most manual trans.

Plasticman

 

Thanks for all the information on the driveshaft angle adjustment and it should make things run smooth when I install the new tranny.I will update how the installation went in about a week.

 

Could it be the same reason some of the first 63 IRS vett half shafts were made out of phase, the person welding them didn't know any better?

 

Gotcha

I use a yolk slid in the output shaft and a magnetic angle finder. Works on both auto and manual trans. Then the yolk on the input to the differential. Same procedure front and back. No need to add or subtract 90 degrees. Match the angles and at least in the verticle plane, they're aligned.

 

Although we are talking about a C2 here, you cannot use a yoke on a C1 to check the output shaft angle (the X frame is in the way). That's why I just say use the oil pan rails, since everyone can see this surface, and they don't need a spare long yoke.

Plasticman

 

Kidvette, a few things I tried that will help you raise the tko up a little higher and get the trans and the differential closer to parrallel.

You can take the top plate over the second shifter location off and grind the top edges off and put some allen headed cap bolts in place of the hex bolts and that will let you raise the trany a little higher.

Make sure you have the thin style front motor mounts to let the motor set as low as possible in front, decreasing your ujoint angle at the tailshaft of the trans.

Make sure you have the thinest possible front pinion cushion between the front pinion mount and the bottom of the frame to let the pinion set as high as possible to make the differential more parrallel with the transmission.

Hope some of this helps SSS

 

John, I'm guessing the Z28 development engineers may have been working on a wheel hop or reverse shudder problem, thus the unique configuration. Kind of off the top of my head so I'll noodle on it some and if something else occurs to me I'll post it here.

I remembered at Ford we had a magnetic V-block that attached to the starter motor housing for engine/trans output shaft angle, similar to Plasticman's method on the pain rails. I believe at least some of the Ford equipment was available in the Ford Rotunda tool catalog in the special service tool area.