Curoius if my 67's Muncie 4 speed needs a re-build. Shifting from 2nd to 3rd, frequently get a mild grind going into 3rd.

When down shifting, almost all gears grind mild to a lot. Double clutch helps a lot but still sometimes get a grind.

Curious if that's the nature of the older trans or if a re-build is in order. If properly built, will they go into pretty much any gear with out grinding?

Thanks!!

If a re-build is in order, anyone know a good place in North NJ, preferrably in Bergen County?

 

That's a sign of worn out synchronizer assemblies in an older worn out trans. A full rebuild including synchronizer assemblies sounds in order and will get rid of that grinding. Transmission should shift cleanly and crisply if everything is in order and shifter is adjusted correctly.

Rich

 

Are you sure the clutch is fully releasing when depressed?

 

Is it hard to get into first at a stop?

 

Sounds like 5 speed time to me??

 

Stopped and running, not hard to get into any gear. The clutch engages about 1/3 to 1/2 travel from the floor, seems okay.

Thinking about a 5 speed but at $3500 think the rebuild is a better (less expensive) option. Not sure a 5 speed would buy much, believe the rear is a pretty high ratio already. Car runs quite good, believe highway speed in 4th is around 2K RPM. I don't plan on racing it, it does have a healty cam, possibly too much from what I have read lately but it is fun when the secondaries kick in. Okay, a 5 speed can be done for less but $3500 is a fairly painless bolt on option with no re-engineering, the only way I would consider it. A lower first gear might be nice though.

In comparing the ratios, the five speed may help a bit but not ready to spend that kind of money. Suspect a 4 speed re-build can be done for under $1,000, perhaps having the shop pull and replace it for that.

FYI - Muncie ratios:
http://www.5speeds.com/muncie2.htm

5 speed ratios:
http://www.classicchevy5speed.com/De...2_Corvette.htm

 

I put the TKO600 in mine only because of my 4:11 rear. I was taching about 3600 RPM @ 70 MPH. $3500 is a lot of $$$.

 

Too close to the floor - IMO adjust engagement upward. If the pedal is not in the "fast shift" position, free play should end about an inch from the top

 

you have a bad clutch release...

 

Do you mean adjust it like magicv8 suggested or something else to look at. Will try to adjust it and report back.

 

OK Guys. You may be on point with the clutch not properly disengaging.

But I am sticking with worn synchros because the grinding is stated to be most common on the 2/3 shift. That's the most commonly missed shift and therefore most abused because people don't set themselves properly to finish the shifter movement without straightarming and coming up short.

You don't need a clutch to shift up or down safely if the synchros are in good condition and you know how to match up rpm. I am not a genius and I am not a wizard and I have driven four speed vehicles without the clutch (shutting off on stops and starting in first) without damage to the trans for many miles on many occasions. (First time I had to do it when the throwout fork support ball broke 140 miles from home)(Did it again just to show people it can be done, they were amazed)

Not arguing, just a different point of view.

Rich

 

Was afraid of that. I will do a lot of work on my car, tranny re-build is not one of them. Usually you end up with a few "extra" parts that the engineers really did not need. Seems a lot of things go that way anyway. Where do I find someone that can work on a Muncie 4 speed?

 

Try here, he did my M22.
TRANSMISSIONS, stocking distributor for all Muncies, T-10, Super T-10, gears, shafts, overhaul kits, new Autogear M-22s; UPS daily, Visa, MC. Larry, 631-351-4837, NY; www.muncie4speed.net**16-YR** N/A

 

You may want to catch Larry at Carlisle if anyone is going. But before you run out any yank your transmission, I don't understand what the big deal is to just adjust your clutch adjustment rod about 1/4" longer and see what happens.

It would seem logical to me to at least give it a try....

In regards to bragging about shifting WITHOUT a clutch. Synchro rings heat up the minute the speed match goes away. Meaning that yes, you can do it when you match speeds, but poor clutch release is actually the number 1 killer of synchro rings. Heat them and they warp. Try that stunt on a newer 6 speed with composite rings and you'll melt the bonding off of the rings.

 

Wasn't bragging. Was stating a fact as I know it from personal experience. Have flat shifted with Chrysler four speeds, saginaw four speeds and Muncie four speeds. As I stated in the earlier post. The guys saying the clutch may not be properly disengaging have a point and may be absolutely correct. Because the original post did not mention difficulty with clutch engagement off the line or in the 1/2 or 3/4 shifts I went with my gut feeling on worn synchros. I would wish for bweaver999 that the clutch adjustment cures the problem. I guess he will tell us what he comes up with.

Rich

 

5speeds - Looks like you are http://www.5speeds.com/muncie.htm. Noticed the picture and in researching things found your site. Brand new Muncie 4 speeds for around $1700 sounds nice. I'll probably go the re-build route if that what it turns out to be. You must be living good, my second link to your site in this thread.

67pete - www.muncie4speed.net looks good, near enough for a drive if I go that route. A re-build is a winter project, will decide then.

New questions:

Magicv8 indicated free play should be 1" from top, AIM seems to say 1.5" +-1/4". I was describing when I let the clutch out, it starts to engage (car begins to move) at that distance at about 1/2 travel. I suspect free play is simply push the pedal, where do I feel resistance / throw out bearing hits the pressure plate. That is about 1".

Did discover two things, the clutch adjustment rod is pretty close to the end of threads. I don't think I have an issue now but in the future, I have no real adjustment. Is that normal?

Also noticed, the ball stud that attaches to the frame is loose. The lock washer is there and locked but it is not tight. Not loose enough to change the adjustment much but want to fix it before it breaks and the front of my Vette kisses the back wall of the garage. All I see are threads, what keeps the stud from turning when I tighten the nut? Can the lock washer be straightened and back or should I just replace it?

 

Hey Everybody ! ! 04:00 and I'm OFF TO CARLISLE ! ! ! Let's all have a great, safe, fun weekend. bweaver999 GOOD LUCK with your trans problem. 5 spds, I also like the looks of that trans on your response. Maybe next time when I build that rat rod.

Rich

 

Oh ,by the way, did anyone mention linkage misalaignment as a possibility?

 

67pete - www.muncie4speed.net looks good, near enough for a drive if I go that route. A re-build is a winter project, will decide then

You could also try Ed Harnett in Landsdowne, Pa. He has one of the largest inventories of trans parts. I dont know if he R&R the trans but I believe he does rebuild them.

EH4speeds@aol.com
(610)623 9381

 

The clutch adjustment at the end of the threads is normal, as long as it's the end of the threads AWAY from the firewall. As your clutch wears and you have to adjust free play, more threads will be exposed.

The stud that sticks out of the clutch cross shaft and sits in the frame bracket is flattened on two sides and the flats slide into the groove on the frame bracket to keep it from rotating when the nut is tightened. I doubt it is causing your problem. It could cause erratic clutch operation.

Free play within reason is not critical. What is critical is to make sure you have some to avoid the throwout bearing making contact with the clutch fingers and not so much so that the clutch won't release. I like about 3/4" myself which is about half what the book says. As your clutch wears, you will notice less and less of free play. Turning the adjustment nuts where you now have few threads showing will improve that condition.

To check for clutch release, go from neutral to reverse while sitting still. If it goes in without continual grinding, your clutch is releasing.

If money is a consideration, consider buying another used 4 speed transmission. Maybe $400-$600 around here. In the transimssion you have now, if every gear grinds, it leaks, vibrates and is otherwise noisy, it may not be worth your while to put money into it.