I am readying my car for judging next spring, but have a couple of questions regarding parts and points deductions.

Can someone please explain which parts are correct for judging purposes. I would assume that original parts in good shape are OK, as well as NOS parts. What about good-quality reproductions parts or parts that are labeled "GM Restoration Parts"? Are these always a points deduction, or if the quality is high and accurate, these too will pass for judging?

Please enlighten me

 

It doesn't matter whether the part is original, NOS, a restoration part, or otherwise, if the part APPEARS to be original, it will be awarded its full originality points. If the part deviates in some way, originality points will be deducted. And of course condition points are based on obviously condition. Note that if a part receives no originality points, it gets no condition points as well.

 

Are there any specific items you're concerned with? Chuck

 

Chuck,

Totally agree with above. I am by far an expert, but have been judged last June after doing and extensive 5 year frame off on a 63 Coupe. I was forced in may cases to use repro parts and in some cases was able to find original parts that needed to be restored or were restored back to OEM standards. I can tell you this, if you don't have the NCRS Judges Manual, get it Get the LATEST Version, and use it as a guide, however, please note you will find some mistakes in the book. If you have the opportunity to come to Boston Region in September I know for a fact the 63-64 years for Top Flight judging are full, so this means there will be some 64's there that will capture Top Flight. TAKE A CAMERA and record as many photos as you can, talk to both the judges and the owners. You will get a mountain of information regarding were to find good parts. Myself I use Long Island Corvette, and Paragon, but still I am very very careful and try to learn as much as I can on the original parts that I get.

In addition you will find there are parts in the JM that are questionable, and I was told by severl NCRS Master Judges...go by the JM, that is what they go by.

Look if I can help you at all, please email me and I will try to point you in the right way to go about this process. You will find the first time you are judged very nerve racking. But PLEASE go about it with the attitude to LEARN from NCRS. They are judging you not on the good work you did, but for the parts that are not considered correct. Don't take their critisism to heart, but take it as a guide to help you understand what needs to be corrected.

Again if I can help you email and I will do the best I can, since the 63 and 64 are similar, I can help you a long to a certain extent.

Regards,
EBVETTE (Collin)

 

what everybody says, and to Colin's point - the TIM&JG often advises what the telltale signs of a non-original part are, let's you know what the judges might be looking for when deciding if your repro part appears original.

 

Problems occur when we start talking NOS because that may NOT mean New Old Stock exactly like the original. It may mean NOS as in similar to the original or a suitable replacement.

Fwiw, I prefer to use known, original parts that are either restored, if possible, or left original if restoration isn't necessary or possible. I would rather take a hit on condition points than originality points.

Gary

 

Agree with Gary. Many "NOS" parts are really "NORS" parts. They're old parts for sure, but not identical to the assembly line parts.

I just bought an original 63 tach cable at Carlisle. It's in good, but not excellent shape. Put it on the car, after I removed my NICE gray, but incorrect configuration repro cable.

I'll take the slight (if any) hit on condition, but I'd rather have an original part. Chuck

 

Is this a fact?
Brian

 

Along with the appropriate Judging Guide, you should get the Corvette Judging Reference Manual (aka "White Book") This isn't specific to any given year, but cover the standard deduction criteria for things like reproduction tires, stainless replacement components, matrix scoring system, condition scoring, GM service replacment parts, etc. etc..

It also covers the whole gamett of questions relating to the judging process.

good luck,
tc

 

assume you are asking about the "bolded text" - yes, if you receive NO originality points, you get NO condition points also

 

bottom line, like everyone has mentioned the TIM&JG is only that a GUIDE - your particular car will be judged by FIVE teams of TWO people against how it appears on a given day to be as ORIGINAL to how it left the factory

 

Ok, say an item receives a 50% deduction for orig, can you receive only a max of 50% on condition, or possibly more?
In other words, are you only penalized on condition pts if you get zero orig pts? Thanks,
Brian

 

...I believe you have to get at LEAST 10% of your "originality" points on an item or assembly to get any "condition" points.

...say for instance you have an orange Fram air filter and it's 5pts on originality, 5 on condition. You'd loose all 10pts here. Say you have a "service replacement" AC Delco air filter. You might loose 2 to 3 points on originality depending upon the differences from an original filter, but you would receive all 5pts for condition if it was new.

 

Hey Paul, I think we met briefly at BG back in June. I walked up to the corvette forum parking area and you were there with your buddy. You were busy doing something in your car and I talked with your buddy for a few minutes. You probably don't even remember it was so brief. You had one of your C3's there, very nice
Brian

 

Paul is correct on the 10% - little more background info on originality scoring - we look at FIVE areas when determining if something "appears to be original" - CONFIGURATION; DATE; COMPLETENESS; FINISH; and INSTALLATION - bottom line, originality is NOT influenced by condition or cleanliness

Condition is then assessed to the extent to which a particular component being judged has NOT sustained damage or deterioration

 

...another part of this "completeness" would be like if 20pts were assigned to the ignition shielding and a car being judged had half of it missing. You'd loose 10pts on "condition" for the missing pieces.

 

Thanks for all of the feedback guys, I have a much better understanding now. I do have the most recent NCRS judging manual for 1963/1964 Corvettes, and have been looking the car over very closely to see what needs to be corrected before judging next spring.

Here's my short list as of today:

1. Bowtie mirror and interior mirrow (while mine look correct, they do not have any DMI date codes on the glass). Paragon sells these and for a fee will add the date code, would this be correct for NCRS?

2. Master cylinder cap, looks like I need a cadmium dichromate yellow one with the words "Use Delco Brake Fluid" on the top. I found one of these in ZIP Corvette's catalog, would this be correct for NCRS?

3. Inner fender dust shields with staples from Paragon or LIC. However I understand the the staples which come with the kit are wrong, and that some guys use steel wire to make their own staples.

4. Dill 627 valve stem caps - just got some NOS parts shipped to me today, will put them on the car tonight.

5. Original T3 (NON DOT) headlights - have three and just got the last high beam tonight - Need to install them on the car.

6. Missing courtesy light switch on in the passanger side door jam - again available at Paragon and I have some Daytona Blue paint to make it look correct.

7. Lug nuts, missing one on each wheel - looks like the old owner had lock lugs on the car at some point - Paragon and LIC stock these.

8. 63 Casco 12v Lighter - got this at Carlisle (cleaned up and working great).

9. Wiper blade rubber inserts, one has the dots and one has ribs. Where can I find NOS or reproductions which will pass judging?

10. Picked up a AP373V Tung Sol flasher at Carlisle. It's aluminum and works great.

That's it for now.

Also, I know that I need to join the NCRS to get judged, I assume that I can do this on the website www.ncrs.org; but how do I register for an event to get the car judged in the spring?

Thanks

 

The next step is for you to get a set of judging sheets for your car. After you join NCRS, contact either the national Team Leader or Judging Chairman. Event registration forms come in the club magazine and are also available by contacting the chapter sponsoring the event.

Concentrate on the operational items. They are 25 points each. Your list below probably doesn't add up to two of those.

I think I remeber sending you some comments when you bought the car and posted pix. I have a 98+ point '64, live nearby and will be glad to help. Send me an e-mail. FWIW here are my thoughts on the rest of your list:

The Paragon dated outside mirror glass is sold separately, easy to change and looks original. I have no experience with the inside mirror.

The staples in the dust shield kits are typically stainless. The judge will check them with a magnet but the deduction will only be a point or two. They should also be blacked out.

Put the lug nuts on anyhow, but wheel covers are not removed for judging.

The guy I got my wiper inserts from has since had some blemishes on his reputation and I wiil not promote his business. If you cannot find them in the major catalogs, talk to some of the more or less local parts guys at County Corvette, Corvette Paramedics or Stoudt's.

If you have the right outlook on this, it will be a fun filled learning experience. It certainly was for me.

 

In 1963 did the T3 Headlights NOT have the DOT stamped on them?
If so,what year did the DOT require the T3 headlights to be stamped?
Thanks,
Hal

 

I'll go out on a limb here, and say that NONE of the "original original" T3's had DOT stamps. The reproduction Lectric Limited ones do have the DOT stamps.

I have clear field original T3's in my 63, and "striped" field T3's in my 69, neither of which have DOT stamps. Chuck