Wheel Hop problem
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 187
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From: Crestview Florida
Wheel Hop problem
Does anybody know an easy way to stop wheel hop on your Corvette without adding the ugly bolt on traction bars that probalby wouldn't fit anyway due to the factory sway bar under the rear leaf springs? I have not installed the factory traction bars yet on my car (they need new bushings) but I have heard that they do not work anyway. Any suggestions?
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 664
From: Beverly Hills (Pine Ridge) Florida
Re: Wheel Hop problem (Torchred62)
Torch,
Went through this last year on my 62. Found that the factory anti-sway bar added to the problem (at least on my Vette). The hop was from side to side (not the typical wrapping of the rear end and leaf springs, but completely verticle - when the pass. side went down, the driver's side went up, and vice-versa). I do have the factory raduis rods (and all the bushings in the rear are new, and rear springs are in great shape). After removal of the anti-sway bar, 95% of the hop was gone, and frankly I don't miss it on the street at all. Note that I also found an axle flange that was bent by .025" (both radially and axially) which certainly did not help the situation. After that was fixed, I do not see any hop at all.
Plasticman
Went through this last year on my 62. Found that the factory anti-sway bar added to the problem (at least on my Vette). The hop was from side to side (not the typical wrapping of the rear end and leaf springs, but completely verticle - when the pass. side went down, the driver's side went up, and vice-versa). I do have the factory raduis rods (and all the bushings in the rear are new, and rear springs are in great shape). After removal of the anti-sway bar, 95% of the hop was gone, and frankly I don't miss it on the street at all. Note that I also found an axle flange that was bent by .025" (both radially and axially) which certainly did not help the situation. After that was fixed, I do not see any hop at all.
Plasticman
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 38,897
Likes: 1,926
From: Washington Michigan
Re: Wheel Hop problem (drives61)
I have a good old-fashioned set of (original) Traction-Masters on my '57; installed many owners ago, I left them in place and put new bushings in them when I restored the car. Best devices ever made, too bad they went out of business 30 years ago. Absolutely no hop or tramp on a hard launch, makes the car feel much more solid even leaving a light normally in town, has no effect on ride harshness or roll stiffness either. They're about as simple as things get, would not be difficult to fabricate - if you look closely you can see them below:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
From: Alhambra CA
Re: Wheel Hop problem (Torchred62)
What about a C2???
I have the same problem.
Already changed out the shocks, no help..
What's next??? :smash:
It will even do it on a quick 1st / 2nd gear change
:mad me up
Would love to be able to not worry about this..
Any ideas??
Tony
[Modified by pittsaj, 2:11 PM 10/23/2001]
I have the same problem.
Already changed out the shocks, no help..
What's next??? :smash:
It will even do it on a quick 1st / 2nd gear change
:mad me up
Would love to be able to not worry about this..
Any ideas??
Tony
[Modified by pittsaj, 2:11 PM 10/23/2001]
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,712
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Re: Wheel Hop problem (pittsaj)
Traction bars won't work on a C2 and "changing the shocks" doesn't mean much, because you have no idea what the shock damping rates are or what they should be.
Your best bet is probably to replace the rear shocks with Konis. They have a fixed jounce damping rate, but the rebound has about four different choices as I recall. The other issue you might find is that damping rates that are sufficient to prevent hop might not be very suitable for ride and handling.
If you read road tests of recent high performance IRS sports cars - Corvette Z06 and Porsche Turbo to name a couple - complaints of wheel hop are typical, so it's probably something you just have to live with unless all you do with the car is standing start quarter miles.
The IRS Corvettes were never popular with drag racers, and where the rules permitted, they converted to a solid axle. The other thing I might add that if you're driving the car hard enough to cause wheel hop you will sooner or later bust the differential and/or U-joints. These components won't hold up well to the rigors of shock loading from high rev clutch drops and power shifting.
Duke
[Modified by SWCDuke, 4:05 PM 10/23/2001]
Your best bet is probably to replace the rear shocks with Konis. They have a fixed jounce damping rate, but the rebound has about four different choices as I recall. The other issue you might find is that damping rates that are sufficient to prevent hop might not be very suitable for ride and handling.
If you read road tests of recent high performance IRS sports cars - Corvette Z06 and Porsche Turbo to name a couple - complaints of wheel hop are typical, so it's probably something you just have to live with unless all you do with the car is standing start quarter miles.
The IRS Corvettes were never popular with drag racers, and where the rules permitted, they converted to a solid axle. The other thing I might add that if you're driving the car hard enough to cause wheel hop you will sooner or later bust the differential and/or U-joints. These components won't hold up well to the rigors of shock loading from high rev clutch drops and power shifting.
Duke
[Modified by SWCDuke, 4:05 PM 10/23/2001]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,334
Likes: 2
From: San Clemente Ca.
Re: Wheel Hop problem (SWCDuke)
Agree with Duke, Koni's are great!
They have been on my car since 66 & still working great!
Have used them on 2 other cars through the yrs
with the same great results. Try and find a good used pair
as they are about $100 or so each and never seem to wear out.
Koni's are adjustable, compress fully till you feel the ball detent,
you have about 2 1/2 full turns from its softest setting to its most stiff.
They differ over most shocks as they are hard to compress (as say a gas shock) But even harder to retract. Great in turns as they take a set that results in less body roll. Should help out with wheel hop as well.
I found a used pair for my K code Must a couple months
ago (on a forum) and paid about $150.00 for 4.
(instead of $500.00)
Great advice Duke!
:smash:
[Modified by 396 RAT, 6:30 PM 10/23/2001]
They have been on my car since 66 & still working great!
Have used them on 2 other cars through the yrs
with the same great results. Try and find a good used pair
as they are about $100 or so each and never seem to wear out.
Koni's are adjustable, compress fully till you feel the ball detent,
you have about 2 1/2 full turns from its softest setting to its most stiff.
They differ over most shocks as they are hard to compress (as say a gas shock) But even harder to retract. Great in turns as they take a set that results in less body roll. Should help out with wheel hop as well.
I found a used pair for my K code Must a couple months
ago (on a forum) and paid about $150.00 for 4.
(instead of $500.00)
Great advice Duke!
:smash:
[Modified by 396 RAT, 6:30 PM 10/23/2001]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
From: Alhambra CA
Re: Wheel Hop problem (SWCDuke)
I don't race or drive the car hard.. :blueangel:
Did I say that?? :rolleyes: :reddevil
Well, lets just say that I don't race :D
You are correct that I would not want to adversely sacrifice ride quality to cure this problem..
Was just wondering if this was abnormal
Don’t want to hurt anything on the occasional hot run..
I take it then that this is a common and expected problem..
BTW
This occurs quite easily on a hot start,, not a high rev clutch dump..
Never done that.. Don't want to break anything
Tony
[Modified by pittsaj, 4:28 PM 10/23/2001]
Did I say that?? :rolleyes: :reddevil
Well, lets just say that I don't race :D
You are correct that I would not want to adversely sacrifice ride quality to cure this problem..
Was just wondering if this was abnormal
Don’t want to hurt anything on the occasional hot run..
I take it then that this is a common and expected problem..
BTW
This occurs quite easily on a hot start,, not a high rev clutch dump..
Never done that.. Don't want to break anything
Tony
[Modified by pittsaj, 4:28 PM 10/23/2001]
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Crestview Florida
Re: Wheel Hop problem (JohnZ)
I can see your traction bars under the car and it is a shame you can't get that kind any more. I am going to try to see what drives61 has for his clamps on his springs. I need something to stop this wheel hop. I checked my runout on my axles when I installed the disc brakes conversion and they are within .010 of being perfect. so my problem isn't any runout. But they do hop. I don't want to drop my sway bar because I go around corners pretty hard at times also. I drive my Vette hard at times but don't abuse it. I like to give street people (Mustang's, Camaro's, Firebird's etc) a run for their money when they pull up next to me and give the ole Vette a chance to show why Corvettes had the reputation they had back in the old days. Thanks everybody for the information. Any more ideas I'll be glad to look into them.
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 12,712
Likes: 2,270
Re: Wheel Hop problem (Torchred62)
Axle hop and tramp was a real problem on Trans-Am Camaros. The Penske team modifiied the springs by placing clamps on the front portion of the leaves ahead of the axle. This essentially turned the front half of the spring into a trailing arm and eliminated the spring windup that occurs due to axle torque.
I'm sure this would substantially stiffen up the ride, alter the roll stiffnes distribution, and might even stress the spring in a way it was not designed for. I'm not advocating that you try this, but just thought it might be worth mentioning if you want to experiment.
Duke
I'm sure this would substantially stiffen up the ride, alter the roll stiffnes distribution, and might even stress the spring in a way it was not designed for. I'm not advocating that you try this, but just thought it might be worth mentioning if you want to experiment.
Duke
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Brisvegas, Australia
Re: Wheel Hop problem (Torchred62)
I've always had the wheel hop problem. I've tried with and without the factory "traction bars", poly bushes, with and without the swaybar, with and without the positraction. Sorry I cant give any advice on how to fix it...
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 15,036
Likes: 79
From: central FL, near the beach.
Re: Wheel Hop problem (SWCDuke)
Torchred62
Duke explained it.
I put 2 clamps on each side, clamping the front leaves together; snug, not too tight.
i used a broken floor jack for scrap steel; about an inch wide by 2 3/4" with 7/16 head bolts. Must be strong; previous owner tried radiator clamps! :rolleyes:
i have enough power that a gentle shift into 2nd burns rubber from 40-60mph. nice and smooth :yesnod:
Stop over if you are ever near New Smyrna Beach.
Duke explained it.
I put 2 clamps on each side, clamping the front leaves together; snug, not too tight.
i used a broken floor jack for scrap steel; about an inch wide by 2 3/4" with 7/16 head bolts. Must be strong; previous owner tried radiator clamps! :rolleyes:
i have enough power that a gentle shift into 2nd burns rubber from 40-60mph. nice and smooth :yesnod:
Stop over if you are ever near New Smyrna Beach.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,017
Likes: 2
From: The problem is all inside your head she said to me.
Re: Wheel Hop problem (Torchred62)
It was a huge problem on my 58. The rear would jump and chatter with any application of power, even during shifts. I replaced the old springs but stayed with 4 leaf. So it only helped a little. My pop put on the 5 leaf springs and his is a little better but you get a firmer ride too. I solved it by sacrificing some ride quality and putting on traction bars. The ride just is a little more bouncy when you hit a bump. They say that they are fit all's but no way. I made a few simple mods to them so I call them custom. 1st they are too wide. So I built a shim pack verticaly and that holds them away from the tires. Then I cut a grove in the front part of them for the emergency brake cable. I just take them off if I get tired of the bounce. The good part is they work! One of two things happens now. If I keep the rpms reasonable it will try to hook. If you rev it up it will just sit on the tires and do a smoke show no bounce just boiling tires. You don't always notice them standing around the car but I think you can see them if you are following me. Was it worth the 35$ and mod time. I think so just for the fun I have gotten out of them. I always wonder when I am going to give in and take the car in the other direction as in open 3.08 gears and go on long cruises with it. :D
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,340
Likes: 664
From: Beverly Hills (Pine Ridge) Florida
Re: Wheel Hop problem (INMYBLOOD)
JohnZ,
I wondering if we could ask you to take some pic's and measurements of your Traction-Master's? I think a few of us could try to replicate these (since they are no longer available).
Anyone else interested?
Thanks,
Plasticman
I wondering if we could ask you to take some pic's and measurements of your Traction-Master's? I think a few of us could try to replicate these (since they are no longer available).
Anyone else interested?
Thanks,
Plasticman
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,618
Likes: 71
From: Gilbert Arid zona
Re: Wheel Hop problem (Plasticman)
JohnZ,
I wondering if we could ask you to take some pic's and measurements of your Traction-Master's? I think a few of us could try to replicate these (since they are no longer available).
Anyone else interested?
Thanks,
Plasticman
I wondering if we could ask you to take some pic's and measurements of your Traction-Master's? I think a few of us could try to replicate these (since they are no longer available).
Anyone else interested?
Thanks,
Plasticman
Gary
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Crestview Florida
Re: Wheel Hop problem (JohnZ)
I am with the others, could you get some information on your traction bars? I think we could make our own if we could get a picture of yours or a drawing with dimensions and what ever else we may need. :cheers: :cheers:
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 38,897
Likes: 1,926
From: Washington Michigan
Re: Wheel Hop problem (JohnZ)
Here are a couple of pics of the original Traction-Masters on my '57. They attach at the axle with a square plate with four holes in it for the axle "U"-bolts that are added below the production plates; these square plates have two ears welded to them with a hole for the through-bolt. The through-bolts are 5/8" or 11/16" diameter (15/16" hex head on the bolts). The rods are heavy-wall 1-1/8" OD steel tubing, bent slightly to clear the bottom of the spring at full suspension travel, and are 24-1/4" from rear bushing center to front bushing center. At the front, the mounting plate is a simple flat piece with two holes in it, on the outside of the front spring bracket - at the top hole, it's under the spring eye bolt head, and the bottom hole is for the bushing through-bolt; it's welded to the spring bracket between the two holes.
Here's a shot of the passenger side, looking front-to-rear:
Here's a shot of the driver's side:
Here's a shot of the passenger side, looking front-to-rear:
Here's a shot of the driver's side: