Which carb is better, Holley or Demon??
11-27-2001, 01:51 AM
#21
Re: Which carb is better, Holley or Demon?? (Blkblt)
Yeah, I've been jealous reading about the tuning sessions. Will definitely have to get there sometime. But with two kids in sports and all kinda stuff going on at home, I'm lucky to get a drive in some weeks, let alone wrenching.
Catch you down there in the summer probably. We should all go to Bandimere together for a little test-n-tune.
Catch you down there in the summer probably. We should all go to Bandimere together for a little test-n-tune.
11-27-2001, 01:26 PM
#22
Le Mans Master
Re: Which carb is better, Holley or Demon?? (L79vette)
I'm with 427Hotrod-
Just buying a carb and sticking it on in hopes of generating 1000 HP is where all the problems start. Any carb can be made to run great if you are a good mechanic. I have worked on just about all of them, and they all have their quirks. But the bottom line is, if you understand the technology (I mean REALLY understand it) then you can make any carb perform just as well as any other. Blanket statements like "The ACME carb is better than the Willie Wonka carb" are a sure sign that someone does not REALLY understand the technology. Carbs are not rocket science. All they do is mix air & fuel. But people get so emotional. Sheesh.
Carbs really take a beating by good intentioned but uninformed mechanics. Any well prepped, non-butchered carb will perform good. It's all in the wrist. :)
Just buying a carb and sticking it on in hopes of generating 1000 HP is where all the problems start. Any carb can be made to run great if you are a good mechanic. I have worked on just about all of them, and they all have their quirks. But the bottom line is, if you understand the technology (I mean REALLY understand it) then you can make any carb perform just as well as any other. Blanket statements like "The ACME carb is better than the Willie Wonka carb" are a sure sign that someone does not REALLY understand the technology. Carbs are not rocket science. All they do is mix air & fuel. But people get so emotional. Sheesh.
Carbs really take a beating by good intentioned but uninformed mechanics. Any well prepped, non-butchered carb will perform good. It's all in the wrist. :)
11-28-2001, 12:07 AM
#23
Re: Which carb is better, Holley or Demon?? (damac)
That's total bullpoopie. The ACME carb made my hood blow off every time I started the car! The Wonka was worse because sugar melts when gas hits it.
Seriously, though, the 4150HP 650CFM made a big difference compared to the stock 600CFM vacuum secondary. Probably due to the better venturi shaping and smothing and the lack of a choke horn. Also the throttle bores are a bit bigger.
How do you explain the 20HP at the wheels gains people are seeing going from stock Holleys to Demons if there's no difference?
Certainly agree that you can tune any carb into a bad situation, but I don't think you can make a stock-type Holley outperform a Demon or 4150HP of the same CFM rating.
Seriously, though, the 4150HP 650CFM made a big difference compared to the stock 600CFM vacuum secondary. Probably due to the better venturi shaping and smothing and the lack of a choke horn. Also the throttle bores are a bit bigger.
How do you explain the 20HP at the wheels gains people are seeing going from stock Holleys to Demons if there's no difference?
Certainly agree that you can tune any carb into a bad situation, but I don't think you can make a stock-type Holley outperform a Demon or 4150HP of the same CFM rating.
11-28-2001, 12:25 AM
#24
Drifting
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Boerne Texas
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Re: Which carb is better, Holley or Demon?? (L79vette)
L79vette wrote:
"Catch you down there in the summer probably. We should all go to Bandimere together for a little test-n-tune."
Wayne: This might work this next early summer. Lars and I are talking pointedly about a clean block build on my '66, L72 - keep it streetable, but much more of a beast than already. Of course, I will have to curtail the unemployment period that I presently dearly love..... :jester
We'd love to meet you. :yesnod: :cheers:
***********
***********
Jeff
Ô66. Modified L72
ÒThe Silver BeastÓ
Keep on
:seeya :seeya :flag
"Catch you down there in the summer probably. We should all go to Bandimere together for a little test-n-tune."
Wayne: This might work this next early summer. Lars and I are talking pointedly about a clean block build on my '66, L72 - keep it streetable, but much more of a beast than already. Of course, I will have to curtail the unemployment period that I presently dearly love..... :jester
We'd love to meet you. :yesnod: :cheers:
***********
***********
Jeff
Ô66. Modified L72
ÒThe Silver BeastÓ
Keep on
:seeya :seeya :flag
11-28-2001, 10:56 AM
#25
Le Mans Master
Re: Which carb is better, Holley or Demon?? (Blkblt)
L79-
Glad to see you have a sense of humor. We need that here.
RE: The comparisons- I have no clue. Since I have not personally done any dyno comparisons, I'm not qualified to open my mouth and spew bullpoopie. It may be that there is a gain by switching from one carb to another. Can't testify to that, yeah or neah. What I was getting at is that a lot of folks who don't really know what they are doing tamper with their carb to the point where it is totally messed up (voice of experience) and then the only way to save face is to buy a new (different make) carb and then blame the mess on the original carb. I have seen this many, many times. In most cases, the original carb would have performed flawlessly had it been tweaked by someone who knew what they were doing. We all learn someplace... nothing wrong with messing up a carb to learn.... but it is not fair to blame the manufacturer when you mess up the carb. That was the jist of my comment.
In essence, you cannot compare different brand carbs 1 to 1 because they are generically different in design. Unlike fuel injection, which provides fuel in a fairly straight line mix, carbs all have specialized low, intermediate and high speed circuits with transition areas between them. Add cfm capability to the mix, and you are comparing apples & oranges.
If we want to take it one step further... then all carbs suck.... fuel injection is the best. It maintains a constant, uninterupted fuel/air delivery and is infinitely more adjustable than a carb. It lends itself to 3 dimensional fuel curve monitoring and tailoring via computer control. I am an "old fart", and I like carburetors, but the current selection of electronically managed fuel injection systems goes way beyond the capabilities of a carb.
I (personally) compare carb vs fuel injection to the flathead vs OHV debates of yesteryear---- and how many flatheads do you see in cars these days?
Back to the original post- I wasn't trying to say that you can't get more HP by switching carbs. I was just trying to point out that you can get equal HP from an engine using any carb brand if you know how to select & properly modify the technology. No brand is inherently better than any other. They all do exactly the same thing.
By the way... I had the same problem with the sugar.
Glad to see you have a sense of humor. We need that here.
RE: The comparisons- I have no clue. Since I have not personally done any dyno comparisons, I'm not qualified to open my mouth and spew bullpoopie. It may be that there is a gain by switching from one carb to another. Can't testify to that, yeah or neah. What I was getting at is that a lot of folks who don't really know what they are doing tamper with their carb to the point where it is totally messed up (voice of experience) and then the only way to save face is to buy a new (different make) carb and then blame the mess on the original carb. I have seen this many, many times. In most cases, the original carb would have performed flawlessly had it been tweaked by someone who knew what they were doing. We all learn someplace... nothing wrong with messing up a carb to learn.... but it is not fair to blame the manufacturer when you mess up the carb. That was the jist of my comment.
In essence, you cannot compare different brand carbs 1 to 1 because they are generically different in design. Unlike fuel injection, which provides fuel in a fairly straight line mix, carbs all have specialized low, intermediate and high speed circuits with transition areas between them. Add cfm capability to the mix, and you are comparing apples & oranges.
If we want to take it one step further... then all carbs suck.... fuel injection is the best. It maintains a constant, uninterupted fuel/air delivery and is infinitely more adjustable than a carb. It lends itself to 3 dimensional fuel curve monitoring and tailoring via computer control. I am an "old fart", and I like carburetors, but the current selection of electronically managed fuel injection systems goes way beyond the capabilities of a carb.
I (personally) compare carb vs fuel injection to the flathead vs OHV debates of yesteryear---- and how many flatheads do you see in cars these days?
Back to the original post- I wasn't trying to say that you can't get more HP by switching carbs. I was just trying to point out that you can get equal HP from an engine using any carb brand if you know how to select & properly modify the technology. No brand is inherently better than any other. They all do exactly the same thing.
By the way... I had the same problem with the sugar.
