Well, i took the car for a long ride today after finishing up some more of the frame off restoration leftovers and i decided that i am going to pull the engine again in a couple of months. There is just really no power to it at all and from what i have learned my compression ratio is probably around 8.7:1 now thanks to the engine shop. I contacted them today and informed them that i expect them to pay for new pistons since they dished the others and for them to also pay for the labor, balancing etc. The car has a really bad shake when accelerating in first and it is really worrying me that they balanced the engine incorrectly or did not bother to rebalance the engine after dishing the pistons on a lathe, or whatever they used. Anyway, i could use some advise.
I am going to go back with the original pop up pistons to boost the compression ratio back up around the mid 10s.
1. While i am at it should i buy scat forged light weight rods with ARP bolts or should i just use the rods i have that already have ARP hardware installed?

2. What thickness head gasket do your recommend and what brand/part number.

3. While i am at it i am going to add a Hydraulic roller camshaft. What roller cam would you all suggest.
Here is one that i like, but i am sure there are ones that are better. Just assume that i will have around 10:5:1 compression when i am done.
Cam Style: Hydraulic roller tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,000-6,400
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 227
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 234
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.478 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.480 in.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112

4. Should i spend the extra money on these rings or just get the standard units? Standard are in the second link.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=SLP-R-9343-45

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=SLP-E-251K40

5. What aftermarket harmonic dampner/balancer??

Thanks so much for the help. I am going to start collecting parts in about a month and i am going to try to make this as quick and as painless as possible. My poor car finally just got put back together after 2-1/2 year restoration and now the engine has to come back out again. I am going to shoot for around a month to pull it, replace the components and have them balanced, and put it back in the car.

 

Yor cam seems sorta close to an L46 hyd cam, which is a nice cam.

Doug

 

Thanks Doug! That is the best off the shelf hyd roller camshaft that i have been able to find. It seems like they all have too much lift or too little duration with just the right amount of lift. Strange

 

BTW, the scat rods that i am looking at are 580grams. What is the weight of the stock rods??\
Thanks

 

Opinions will vary all over the place on what you should do. For my money, I'd write this shop off and find a shop that could do better work.

The conservative approach when rebuilding an engine would be to replace the rods. In my view, they are probably the most highly stressed components in an engine and the parts most likely to experience eventual failure due to metal fatigue. Bear in mind tho, this is a conservative approach (the one I'd take) and lots of people successfully rebuild and run engines with used rods all the time.


This is dependent on the deck height of your block and the assembled height of the crank + rod + piston.

Has the block been decked? To what height? What pistons are you planning to run?



I'm partial to Fluidampr brand, but they are pricey.


I feel your pain. I absolutely HATE do-overs. Good luck.

Jim

 

If you plan on using the Federal Mogul OEM 2166 pistons, double check that the new ones can be used with bushed rods because those rods are only available in bushed ends. AZDOUG might be able to tell us if the new pistons came with locks or not.

Personally, I would opt for the Crower Sportsman rods.

As already stated, before any head gasket is selected, you need to install new pistons and measure the deck height and cc the heads.

Instead of an aftermarket damper, why not just run the GMPP 8" damper, p/n 364709? If not, ATI seems to have a very popular damper as well.

I would just use the standard ring set or look at the total seal rings before buying the plasma rings.

BTW, what is the Intake Center Line (ICL) of that cam and advertised duration numbers.

 

Under 500hp ..and you will be well below that.. the rods aren't
nessasary... Im not suggesting you not have primo parts down below..
Who doesn't want 'em?? I'd use what I had and spend elsewhere.

How about money spent on Power adding??

1. Professional Pocket Port of stock heads-plus 20-40hp (Mondello)
2. Low HP draw water pump (Stewart or Victor Jr.) 3hp draw
3. Low HP draw Alternator 2-3hp draw (Powermaster)
4. Manifold Ported by Wilson Manifolds
5. Iginition Upgrade
6. High CFM exhaust muffs and headers
7. Carb enhancement (C&S)

(all of these are Low $ upgrades... should be under $500)

Rods will give some piece of mind on bottom end integrity but
you won't really see much of a power bump.

Getting the original shop to fix what they broke can be a mixed bag...
it may be worth the effort... or prolong the nightmare... hope it's the
former in your case.

I like your cam choice.... 230 to 236 @ .050 and .480 to 550 lift
is a good street/stripper... 112 lsa can be run with EFI... no worries..
.. nice cam..

 

I don't recall any retainers with the Speed Pro pistons I got last year.

Doug

 

Thanks Doug,
I just checked the catalog too, the L2166NF pistons are press fit. I recall Mark had sent his pistons to Arias to have them cut for retainers.

http://www.21cgt.com/FMWebCatalog/default.htm

 

I can feel your pain and even more so since I am now starting the 3rd motor R&R since a 6 year restoration was finally completed some 18 months ago.

The only comments I have to make are about your future business with whom you blame for much of your problems. Simply put if they are not looking for a chance to make right what they did wrong don't think for a second you will ever be pleased with them....... actually you will end up far worse than where you are now.

If you have to force them to do it rather than them volunteering cut your losses and your headaches by finding yourself someone else to work with.

Doug

 

1. I will not use that shop ever again. I am only asking them for money to ease my pain and suffering and to purchase the new parts that are now necessary due to their screw ups. I do my own work now and have a good machine shop that does my balancing, press fitting for pistons etc.
2. I found scat rods that are press fit and are not bushed with arp hardware for small journal cranks.

3. The pistons I will be using are not the stock style federal mogul units, but speed pro forged pistons with coated skirts.

Thanks!

 

This sounds really familiar. It just so happens that I completed my 2-1/2 year-long restoration on my 65 last year and had similar issues. I discovered that the new 6" harmonic balancer (a Fluidampr) was not balanced with the engine and gave it a terrible vibration. I was about to remove and re-balance the entire engine (and pay someone else to do it) right before I decided to put the 20-year old 8" harmonic balancer back on to check "one last thing"...and that's where the problem was. Everything smoothed out.

I have a Comp Cams 12-432-8 hydraulic roller cam, but it probably has more duration than what you are looking for---282/288 duration @ .510/520 lift. I haven't had any problems with reliability with the brand, though.

Good luck to you, amigo----

 

The Scat rods are about the heaviest rod you'll find, over 620-640 grams, every batch varies so that means adding a bunch of weight to your crank. SCAT won't guarantee what weight you'll end up with either. Another rod worth considering is the Eagle SIR capscrew rod which comes in around 550 grams which is much closer to a stock rod's weight. Both however are a upgrade from your early '65 rod design.

Federal Mogul makes the forged Speed Pro piston with the coated skirt, PN L2166NF. It is the only OEM configured piston with the exception of the newly coated skirts and the newer profile skirts.

Have fun with the build.

 

I like the Crower rods. Even if they are a bit more expensive, I like to buy American made whenever possible. I am sick of Communist China taking over.

Besides, Crowers are beautifully made.

 

Bringing something back to a shop that screwed up is like sending a tough steak back only to get another tough steak. Look elsewhere

 

If you are taking about SpeedPro L2166N's, they are updated versions of the TRW replacements for factory 11:1 pistons. I believe the only difference is the coated skirt. According to FM/SpeedPro, they are 10:35 cr with a .039 gasket but I don't know what deck clearance they assume.

The lift figures on the roller you mentioned seem kinda low for the duration. One of the main benefits of rollers is that they can (safely) open the valve faster. End result is you can have much greater flow at higher rpm with less duration and overlap than a flat tappet of the same duration.

 

Being new to this stuff :

What size block are you placing all this stuff into?

What Crank are you running? as I'd be wanting to make certain my bottom end was strong enough to support all the other nice accessories, so I'm just curious....

 

You'll go through all the trouble to R&R the engine to find out they still suck.

Cobra, the difference in amount of compression that your talking about is not going to be noticeable to the extent that your communicating.

You need to have a different shop check all the tolerances as they disassemble it.
Thing's that I would look for are: Bent crank, Straightness of main journals, Thrust bearing being to loose, Cam bearing condition and alignment.
Then get the rotating assembly balanced with your new Pistons and part's. Also a good indicator of how good of a balance job you will get is if the shop ask for your damper and flywheel. If they don't go somewhere else.