Number "decoding" per Barrett-Jackson
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Number "decoding" per Barrett-Jackson
OK, after watching B/J this week and for years, I continue to hear them mention the big-money Mopars being "decoded" by a person whose correct name escapes me ("Gautier"- something like that).
It seems like the Hemis, and other $$ Mopars have to have that detail for correctness. They seem to call the "decoding" what we would expect... numbers, dates, production, etc.
My question is this... what is so special about this guy that noone else in the Mopar World can do? There's about a zillion people that have a Black Book and an NCRS guide that can "decode" a Corvette with their eyes closed. What's the difference?
I also find it funny that all the different model cars were "verified" onstage by Magnante and his little "finger-cam" by trim tags, data plates, etc with ZERO reference to the fact these tags are faked and repro'ed and available anywhere.
It seems like the Hemis, and other $$ Mopars have to have that detail for correctness. They seem to call the "decoding" what we would expect... numbers, dates, production, etc.
My question is this... what is so special about this guy that noone else in the Mopar World can do? There's about a zillion people that have a Black Book and an NCRS guide that can "decode" a Corvette with their eyes closed. What's the difference?
I also find it funny that all the different model cars were "verified" onstage by Magnante and his little "finger-cam" by trim tags, data plates, etc with ZERO reference to the fact these tags are faked and repro'ed and available anywhere.
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Galen Govier http://www.gvgovier.com/
It's probably like us saying "JohnZ concurs with the authenticity of this 67 Corvette"
In spite of the fact that tags can be faked, I was impressed overall by Magnate's knowledge on the stage.
It's probably like us saying "JohnZ concurs with the authenticity of this 67 Corvette"
In spite of the fact that tags can be faked, I was impressed overall by Magnate's knowledge on the stage.
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Army
He seemed to have a lot of specialized info on specific cars way beyond blue book, etc.. The one car (can't remember I think it was a Challenger or Charger or some such) - he went to great pains to explain that the an original or correctly restored car had a really crappy fit between the hood and fenders because the fiberglass hood vendor and MoPar body people never talked.
You can spot a fake or a poor restoration because the hood to fender fit will be perfect. Nuances like that are what make knowledgeable folks stand out.
You can spot a fake or a poor restoration because the hood to fender fit will be perfect. Nuances like that are what make knowledgeable folks stand out.
Former Vendor
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From: walpole ma
He seemed to have a lot of specialized info on specific cars way beyond blue book, etc.. The one car (can't remember I think it was a Challenger or Charger or some such) - he went to great pains to explain that the an original or correctly restored car had a really crappy fit between the hood and fenders because the fiberglass hood vendor and MoPar body people never talked.
You can spot a fake or a poor restoration because the hood to fender fit will be perfect. Nuances like that are what make knowledgeable folks stand out.
You can spot a fake or a poor restoration because the hood to fender fit will be perfect. Nuances like that are what make knowledgeable folks stand out.
I am not sure I would call a restoration on a vehicle with perfect body gaps fake or "poor".
As a matter of fact it takes a hell of a lot more talent to gap a car as perfectly as possible than not. (It is harder than it looks)
I would call it not correct to being "factory correct" if that is what someone is shooting for.
There is a lot of knowledge that goes into a "factory" correct restoration, and a lot of talent that goes into improving the car's body into something better when a situation arises making a better appearing body desirable.
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Army
I am not sure I would call a restoration on a vehicle with perfect body gaps fake or "poor".
As a matter of fact it takes a hell of a lot more talent to gap a car as perfectly as possible than not. (It is harder than it looks)
I would call it not correct to being "factory correct" if that is what someone is shooting for.
There is a lot of knowledge that goes into a "factory" correct restoration, and a lot of talent that goes into improving the car's body into something better when a situation arises making a better appearing body desirable.
As a matter of fact it takes a hell of a lot more talent to gap a car as perfectly as possible than not. (It is harder than it looks)
I would call it not correct to being "factory correct" if that is what someone is shooting for.
There is a lot of knowledge that goes into a "factory" correct restoration, and a lot of talent that goes into improving the car's body into something better when a situation arises making a better appearing body desirable.
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Decode....Correct me if I'm wrong-but the Mopar, Ford and Pontiac (some others I'm sure)cars can be "decoded" JUST by their vin number. Where as what type of engine ORIGINALLY came in the car. Ford was doing it as early as 55-using the T-Bird as an example-just looking at the vin would tell you if it came from the factory with one or two 4bbls....
NOT saying somebody can't change a VIN -say from one wrecked car to another...or trim tag....but in the Corvette world that vin just tells you (in the chrome bumper era)- coupe or conv and approximately when it was built. Nothing more nothing less. (ok...sidepipes....but NOT IF it came from the factory w/ them ONLY if it couldn't))
I think NOT having any real way (other than halfshafts-fuel lines-holes in the fender-tach faces -sway bars-etc) but rather a sort of forensics way of telling what kind of options came FROM the factory-most which can easily be changed in a restoration-has HURT the prices of Corvettes.
Am I wrong?
NOT saying somebody can't change a VIN -say from one wrecked car to another...or trim tag....but in the Corvette world that vin just tells you (in the chrome bumper era)- coupe or conv and approximately when it was built. Nothing more nothing less. (ok...sidepipes....but NOT IF it came from the factory w/ them ONLY if it couldn't))
I think NOT having any real way (other than halfshafts-fuel lines-holes in the fender-tach faces -sway bars-etc) but rather a sort of forensics way of telling what kind of options came FROM the factory-most which can easily be changed in a restoration-has HURT the prices of Corvettes.
Am I wrong?
Former Vendor
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From: walpole ma
I won't get into the semantics; if you wanted that specific car to appear factory "fresh" the gap had to be bad. I've also heard the term "over-restored" in regards to cars that have original factory faults corrected (paint overruns, etc.). Not everybody would agree that such restorations are 'better' or more desirable - but ....different strokes for different folks...
I agree with you completely on your point. I am just stating a fact regarding the workmanship required to "over restore " a car .
There are cars out there highly valued for their original appearance, and others that are highly valued because of their craftsmanship. All are great in their own way,and should be appreciated as such.
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Galen Govier http://www.gvgovier.com/
It's probably like us saying "JohnZ concurs with the authenticity of this 67 Corvette"
In spite of the fact that tags can be faked, I was impressed overall by Magnate's knowledge on the stage.
It's probably like us saying "JohnZ concurs with the authenticity of this 67 Corvette"
In spite of the fact that tags can be faked, I was impressed overall by Magnate's knowledge on the stage.
I still have not heard a good answer to the Govier question. John Z is one of many people in this hobby who could decode a Corvette properly. (no disrespect intended) Moper-ites act like this Govier is the only one who can read a trim tag. Maybe I need to post this question on a Mopar site (or even OT?)
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Govier had access to Mopar's vin detail records... he could get the exact build data from Chrysler......
a Marti report is the same for the Ford guys, and a Pontiac Historical Society report is gold for the Pontiac guys.
all the Chevy records are believed to be destroyed when they closed the St Louis plant....... which is why only a 300 horse powerglide Corvette can be trusted to be 'numbers matchin'
a Marti report is the same for the Ford guys, and a Pontiac Historical Society report is gold for the Pontiac guys.
all the Chevy records are believed to be destroyed when they closed the St Louis plant....... which is why only a 300 horse powerglide Corvette can be trusted to be 'numbers matchin'
Cartoon Character
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From: Can't be more than 114... Arizona
Mopars do not have trim tags in the interior under the dash like Vettes and they can be destroyed. Galen has you submit the rusty tag and the photos to confirm that you have the real car and not a clone, fake or my favourite type , the "Re-Creation"
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From: Conroe Texas
Thread Starter
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From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
Govier had access to Mopar's vin detail records... he could get the exact build data from Chrysler......
a Marti report is the same for the Ford guys, and a Pontiac Historical Society report is gold for the Pontiac guys.
all the Chevy records are believed to be destroyed when they closed the St Louis plant....... which is why only a 300 horse powerglide Corvette can be trusted to be 'numbers matchin'
a Marti report is the same for the Ford guys, and a Pontiac Historical Society report is gold for the Pontiac guys.
all the Chevy records are believed to be destroyed when they closed the St Louis plant....... which is why only a 300 horse powerglide Corvette can be trusted to be 'numbers matchin'
I'm still baffled how one guy can decode a Mopar but the idea that only one guy decoding a Corvette would be ludicrous.
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and Galen was not the only one with access, just the first guy to figure out how to make money with that access..........
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Cheers
Steve
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From: Northern Indiana. SW FLA
He seemed to have a lot of specialized info on specific cars way beyond blue book, etc.. The one car (can't remember I think it was a Challenger or Charger or some such) - he went to great pains to explain that the an original or correctly restored car had a really crappy fit between the hood and fenders because the fiberglass hood vendor and MoPar body people never talked.
You can spot a fake or a poor restoration because the hood to fender fit will be perfect. Nuances like that are what make knowledgeable folks stand out.
You can spot a fake or a poor restoration because the hood to fender fit will be perfect. Nuances like that are what make knowledgeable folks stand out.
The car that they were discussing the "poor" fitment between the fiberglass hood and fender was a 70 AAR 'Cuda. This was a factory built
race car built in limited quanties.
Scott
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From: Citrus Hills, Florida
Hmmm, only one fellow can verify Mopars as being correct? In addition to that service he supplies fender tags, broadcast sheets and window stickers. Hmmm. I do not think I would be paying big bucks for any Mopar (Govier verified or not) unless I had another verification source.With today's prices there is too much temptation to fabricate information/vehicles. How would one differentiate a clone from an original if Govier gave the ok on the clone? Too risky.
Just my two cents.Regards,
Fred
Last edited by vettefred; Jan 21, 2008 at 01:52 PM.
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