Egine install, Need help !!!
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From: Bonheiden Belgium Europe
Egine install, Need help !!!
Trying to install my engine on the frame but I dont get it lined up with engine mounts and transmission mount.
Is my frame bend or the engine mounts?
see pictures below
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[IMG]
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old mounts are a bit offset but thats due to their age right?
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Please advise what to do
Ray
Is my frame bend or the engine mounts?
see pictures below
[IMG]
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG]old mounts are a bit offset but thats due to their age right?
[IMG]
[/IMG]Please advise what to do
Ray
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From: FL
Locate a frame shop. The frame is bent. You should take a copy of the frame dimension specifications found in the service manual so they know what is what as they may not have any from that far back.
A real old shop will still have it, but on a 40 some year old car, odds are the shop owner isn't even that old, let alone the shop.
Most likely it is the motor mount horns that are bent, but you could have the outer rails tweaked from some impact years ago.
A real old shop will still have it, but on a 40 some year old car, odds are the shop owner isn't even that old, let alone the shop.
Most likely it is the motor mount horns that are bent, but you could have the outer rails tweaked from some impact years ago.
Safety Car
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From: FL
Oh, and leave the engine and transmission in so that they can get them set right. I didn't once and had to made a return trip since after straightening the frame, the engine didn't line up anymore.
Quite possible that is what you have, a straightened from that horns don't line up anymore because they stayed in place when the frame bent, but weren't held there when straightened.
Quite possible that is what you have, a straightened from that horns don't line up anymore because they stayed in place when the frame bent, but weren't held there when straightened.
Thread Starter
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From: Bonheiden Belgium Europe
Damn thats bad news, its the same engine that was on the frame before I started the frame-off
Could the acid dip and or powder coating procedure be the problem?
Hard to find a good frame shop here in Europe
thx for your quick reply Mark
Could the acid dip and or powder coating procedure be the problem?
Hard to find a good frame shop here in Europe
thx for your quick reply Mark
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From: Clayton NC
Before we get all excited and talk about straightening the frame why don't you just loosen the 3 bolts that hold the mounts to the motor. Then see how much play you have to move the motor around and the tranny..
Dave
Dave
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From: FL
I should have read your profile. That is going to be rough. You will need several tons of pressure to move that horn. A 1-1/2 ton chain hoist won't do it (tried). You might be able to use a 10 or 20 ton bottle jack braced against the cross member to do it. You need to access where the transmission is, so you can see if the left one needs to go forward or the right one backward.
Odds are they both have to move, and not by the same amount. You will know by how the bolt holes for the transmission mount align.
It will be tempting to use a torch (oxy-acet) to heat and bend, but don't do it as it will weaken the mounts.
Good luck.
From the looks of that original mount, the frame horn is at least 1/2 inch too far back on the one side. There is no way he can get that much play in loosening the bolts.
Are those a poly or composite mount, or are they rubber? If rubber, you could use a large enough lever, or a chain pull, to pull the transmission in place, but I wouldn't since you are about 4 inches off in back.
That is a lot of stress to put it under.
Thread Starter
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From: Bonheiden Belgium Europe
I should have read your profile. That is going to be rough. You will need several tons of pressure to move that horn. A 1-1/2 ton chain hoist won't do it (tried). You might be able to use a 10 or 20 ton bottle jack braced against the cross member to do it. You need to access where the transmission is, so you can see if the left one needs to go forward or the right one backward.
Odds are they both have to move, and not by the same amount. You will know by how the bolt holes for the transmission mount align.
It will be tempting to use a torch (oxy-acet) to heat and bend, but don't do it as it will weaken the mounts.
Good luck.
From the looks of that original mount, the frame horn is at least 1/2 inch too far back on the one side. There is no way he can get that much play in loosening the bolts.
Are those a poly or composite mount, or are they rubber? If rubber, you could use a large enough lever, or a chain pull, to pull the transmission in place, but I wouldn't since you are about 4 inches off in back.
That is a lot of stress to put it under.
Odds are they both have to move, and not by the same amount. You will know by how the bolt holes for the transmission mount align.
It will be tempting to use a torch (oxy-acet) to heat and bend, but don't do it as it will weaken the mounts.
Good luck.
From the looks of that original mount, the frame horn is at least 1/2 inch too far back on the one side. There is no way he can get that much play in loosening the bolts.
Are those a poly or composite mount, or are they rubber? If rubber, you could use a large enough lever, or a chain pull, to pull the transmission in place, but I wouldn't since you are about 4 inches off in back.
That is a lot of stress to put it under.
I spoke to the frame shop who did the repairs on the frame and they said that it was possible for them to do it but a good diagram would be helpfull.
If I check on the diagram (corvette chassis restoration guide 53-72) for the frame I see someting called "gauge hole" Is this where the front off the horns should be aligned with?
Has anyone a better diagram of the C2 frame concerning the position of the engine mount horns?
thx in advance,
Ray
Last edited by raytex; Mar 24, 2008 at 04:14 PM.
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Thread Starter
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From: Bonheiden Belgium Europe
Thx al329,
If you look at the diagram is it correct to say that the front of the engine mount horns line up with the gauge hole on the side of the frame?
If you look at the diagram is it correct to say that the front of the engine mount horns line up with the gauge hole on the side of the frame?
Last edited by raytex; Mar 24, 2008 at 04:14 PM.
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St. Jude Donor '07
personally, i would take those poly mounts out and throw them away as they are way too hard for a street machine and will transmit all the engine noise and vibration...
BUT, the first thing i would try is putting the old ones back in and see if everything lines up, if they do, then i would consider getting new rubber mounts (they are far more flexible than the poly mounts) and then just pull the back trans mount over to where it should be (or just use the old mounts if they're not broken...)
Bill
BUT, the first thing i would try is putting the old ones back in and see if everything lines up, if they do, then i would consider getting new rubber mounts (they are far more flexible than the poly mounts) and then just pull the back trans mount over to where it should be (or just use the old mounts if they're not broken...)
Bill
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BUT, the first thing i would try is putting the old ones back in and see if everything lines up, if they do, then i would consider getting new rubber mounts (they are far more flexible than the poly mounts) and then just pull the back trans mount over to where it should be (or just use the old mounts if they're not broken...)
Bill
Bill
Looks like the engine was sitting cocked in the frame from the beginning.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Detroit MI
Put a board under your oil/trans belly anduse a floor jack with a turnable saddle and lift the entire thing up a slight amount. Loosen up all of the motor mount bolts and trans mount bolts. I agree with Bill (see below) about the poly mounts...just use new stock rubber. Try that first. Just be careful! You don't want to drop the motor on your fingers!!
personally, i would take those poly mounts out and throw them away as they are way too hard for a street machine and will transmit all the engine noise and vibration...
BUT, the first thing i would try is putting the old ones back in and see if everything lines up, if they do, then i would consider getting new rubber mounts (they are far more flexible than the poly mounts) and then just pull the back trans mount over to where it should be (or just use the old mounts if they're not broken...)
Bill
BUT, the first thing i would try is putting the old ones back in and see if everything lines up, if they do, then i would consider getting new rubber mounts (they are far more flexible than the poly mounts) and then just pull the back trans mount over to where it should be (or just use the old mounts if they're not broken...)
Bill
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My first thought also was don't get excited - just loosen everything up and wiggle it into position. But those old mounts do look twisted so there must be something going on there that needs attention. Yes - the front of the motor mount pad is in line with the guage hole in the frame rail just behind the spring pocket. Or 69-3/8 inches from the center of the #3 body mount (the one in front of the rear wheels. Or 18 inches from the center of the #2 body mount (behind the front wheels.
Thread Starter
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From: Bonheiden Belgium Europe
YES,YES,YES 
thx for the advise about putting back the old rubber engine mounts.
I installed them and it just came into place the way it should.
[IMG]
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I will ebay the poly mounts and get some new rubber ones.
Thx to all for the input and sugestions I really could not do this frame-off without your advise guys.
Ray
thx for the advise about putting back the old rubber engine mounts.
I installed them and it just came into place the way it should.
[IMG]
[/IMG]I will ebay the poly mounts and get some new rubber ones.
Thx to all for the input and sugestions I really could not do this frame-off without your advise guys.
Ray
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Team Owner
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From: Greenville, Indiana
When you put the new mounts on, run the right side motor mount bolt from rear to front so you can take it out without removing the fuel pump next time.
I agree with the others. Your frame is (still) bent. Maybe pushed back behind the left front wheel. That's a weak spot.
I agree with the others. Your frame is (still) bent. Maybe pushed back behind the left front wheel. That's a weak spot.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Tampa, Fl.
for a quick check, you can take a plumb and locate various frame hole positions on your concrete floor, then move the chassis out of the way. you can check frame squareness by pulling diagonals and laterals.
record at least four measurements on each side, then measure similar combinations. make a diagram of frame and all holes, then record all measurements. ball park deviation in compared measurements should be around one quarter inch or less. someone on the forum smarter than myself can tell you where you can get measurements (assembly manual?), however, measurements taken are comparative, left-to-right, front-to-rear, diagonally, so, really, I think you don't need measurements.
this will ball park the problem.
chuck
record at least four measurements on each side, then measure similar combinations. make a diagram of frame and all holes, then record all measurements. ball park deviation in compared measurements should be around one quarter inch or less. someone on the forum smarter than myself can tell you where you can get measurements (assembly manual?), however, measurements taken are comparative, left-to-right, front-to-rear, diagonally, so, really, I think you don't need measurements.
this will ball park the problem.
chuck
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If your using the same engine and it was OK before you had the frame restored ,then you have something els wrong or your doing things wrong . Are you sure the new mounts are correct or made wrong?? You better rethink it over!
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From: Bonheiden Belgium Europe
I will bring the frame with engine on it to a frame shop and they can measure the position of the engine mount horns and bring them back inline so I can install new rubber engine mounts.
Yes the new mount appear to be ok but they are poly ones.
I will go for rubber ones again now.
Ray
Last edited by raytex; Mar 24, 2008 at 10:11 AM.