jimgessner

APPRECIATE THE KUDO'S guys, but I am serious about helping our fellow hobby guys.

I have talked to a few friends this past week that attended the NCRS CONVENTION in Virginia. It was a good meet with three seminars focused on 1963 Corvette. The ZO-6 production model was discussed in detail. There are so many differences in 63 models anyway from beginning to end, but the Z0-6 model and especially the NO-3 BIG TANK cars are all very unique. Because of value, many opinions are out there about ''what is correct''

I will be going to CARLISLE in two weeks with a friend who is towing his big tank car back where it will be exhibited in CHIP'S CHOICE. I look forward to meeting and seeing many of you where we can continue this discussion.

Knowledge is power, and the smarter we all are, the easier it is for the next generation. AND, .....WE BETTER BE HAVING ''FUN'', or its not worth the aggravation.

MikeM

I cannot help myself.

I've been advised by a person who has seen this thread and will remain nameless that:

"Tell those guys not to get their hopes up. There were no production L88's in 66.

I know too much about a few of those supposedly L88 cars."


He raced those cars back in the day and I'd consider him a credible source of info.

PAmotorman

there were no L-88 engine with aluminum heads in 1966 but there were 427 HD engines with cast iron heads.

MikeM

These were available in your new Corvette as ordered from the dealer, right?

I know you know the answer to the question.

PAmotorman

if you knew the phone number of the "product promotion dept" (racing)at GM you stood a chance.

firstgear

Brian, the radiator cap is wrong......

Nice looking engine bay!

Smooth66

I love "nameless" sources! I have a DVD interview with Dick about this very subject!

MikeM

............and I'm kinda' fond of name droppers!

RACERONLY

Old thread but for the record, I spoke to Dick personally and he confirmed the story to a T. Dick was right in the middle of all of this action and many things happened and didn't happen during assembly that were or were not in the documentation. Anyone suggesting that Dick Guldstrand didn't know what motor was in the Penske car when he picked it up off of the production line not running and had to start it for them?, well nothing more to say about that! All three Garner Air L88 cars did not have J56 KH proportioning valves, but that was on the J56 manifest right?

TCracingCA

Dick always from as far back as I can remember always called the Penske car the L88! I had as many conversations with Dick as anyone being one of his longest term customers and biggest customers for his parts!
It all got fuzzy with the aluminum head problems! Those were pulled and replaced with iron for the race as we covered in other threads! So that has led to questions of it being an L88.
I have the 1966 Submitted FIA homologation papers submitted in late 1965 for the 1966 Conpetition model with aluminum heads! And they kept trying to work out the difficulties with those heads and out popped a car such as the Best Photo car! But there were Iron headed gear drive cars with 425hp rated and M22s and such that were HD cars! Such connected in guys got those! The Pedro Rodriquez connected one is not and built up from Harold Whims wrecked one! The CD test car that turned the 12.8 @112 was one of these special cars and that car was run with both iron and aluminum heads and had the special 8k tach! The Traco engine was shipped to them pieced together with no final assembly or torques! The other engine that came with the car on delivery to Guldstrand ended up in the Penske Grand Sport for Sebring! And etc etc etc

Todd H.

Derek or anyone, were the '66 HD cars built throughout the model run? They're not necessarily early or late? Big tanks? Engine suffix? Did they all have the 8K tachs?

PAmotorman

these are the parts for the HD 427 in 1966

TCracingCA

I am believing that there were only three such cars built thru the production line, pilot cars! (Penske racer, the true early , Yenko/Summers car, and the 8000rpm tach proving grounds car)! I am strongly believing that the heavy duty parts packages were sent out to various proven race sponsoring Dealerships for basically the rest for 1966! That the 1967 L88s were truly the first production race package big blocks now!

The Penske car does not have an 8000 rpm tach currently! And I don't think I have found a true back in the day photo that shows the dash to definitely tell what tach was in it at Daytona and Sebring, but then I haven't specifically looked yet for any pictures! But it probably just had the 7000 tach as that car was very early! And I probably have a bunch of pictures that could tell me, as I think I have like 40k +/- 50k vintage pictures of Corvette race cars now!

Spotting that 8000 rpm tach in that old picture was a cool discovery! I rubbed my eyes acnumber of times, and recounted the tach numbering several times!

One of the guys associated with the Alan Green Chevrolet racer contacted me in private naturally wanting information , so I approach sharing everything carefully I have found and just shared initially some thoughts, but adding that I ain't part of the old Boys investor network, he rudely never thanked me for my reply, and I never heard back from our member to see if that individual was a worth while person to help!

Some of these guys with these claimed cars are more wanting to know if anyone of clout has anything on their phony cars, so since I truly don't hang with that bull$hit crowd, That I am not networking things that could hurt their rep, gone and never heard anything further! And naturally never shared anything back as a courtesy for trying to help them by responding! A bunch of creeps! I wouldn't want my cars documented by any of them, because one day they will get caught by the Corvette World doing their phony history chains on quite a number of these famous cars! But legitimately they do have just enough involvement with authentic cars, that when they slide thru a phony one, no one raises any real issues!

I was reading like the complete original story of the claimed justifications for the 49 Greenwood car and it starting with coming with some 4 lug hole Mini-lite rims that they claim were redrilled to 5 lugs! That sounds like it was a good weekend project for someone prior to the big discovery announcement! But now years later after controversy, sounds like the Greenwood's gave it creditability and wrote the guy a letter! Heck why not, it gives them Press and fame and sometimes some fresh pocket change!

Dr L-88

Four Kings 1966 Corvettes. One of four..................four ???? FOUR??? ONE OF FOUR ??????? Hmmmmmmmmmm. Anybody know these cars? Derek, I'm sure you do.

Some big news coming soon.......................maybe ????

http://fourkingscorvette.com/history

TCracingCA

We had a thread related to those cars! And I added some commentary to the topic!

I have individual folder of information on each one of those cars. And I still side with my version of the story! The folders came about, because at one point I was going to get all organized on research data, right about at that same time that was being talked about! But now I am a PRC guy!

TCracingCA

This came about right as Chevrolet was developing their aftermarket parts support, starting in 1965. Some of the first work was the joint venture between Bill Thomas and Nickey Chevrolet. Thomas has wrote the 396 Book, and followed that up with the 427 Supplement, which was very much in the mode of a standard repair manual and with the cool part numbers. I have both of those. Those books were advertised in some of the Hot Rod mags, back in the day.

This parts list you display was actually distributed out to the Trained to be Performance Dealership outfits and to a few of the Big Parts chains that were chosen like Bill Thomas, Gratiots, etc..Basically your Nickey, Berger, Briggs, Rathmans, Alan Green, etc. etc. etc.

I have been developing the list of what Dealerships got the nod, based on their personnel knowing specifics about these types of special performance parts and being able to work with customers wanting support.

Nowhere Man

TC was A R Smith in York Pa one of these dealers?

PAmotorman

these parts were mostly developed for NASCAR racing

TCracingCA

Yes and that too, Bill Thomas was maintaining NASCARs for like Don Steves from earlier. Yunick was actually a small block advocate!

TCracingCA

I can't think of the famous PA racer guy that everyone knows. One of there license plate inserts was recently selling on Ebay (Revision got it----- Ammon R Smith Chevrolet (Old Reliable), have to go refresh memory from notes), but I think it was reproduced, and I think one I saw for around $50 selling recently. I think my list has three PA dealerships in the performance parts. I haven't had it out in a little while!

I am going off of memory, dangerous-- but I think I have the HIPO parts going out to 32 dealerships initially 1965, and then thru the latter 1965 and into 1966, that greatly expanded, as Dealerships were sponsoring their preferred form of Chevrolet Powered Race Driver. I don't precisely know who the first 32 were, and have some of the latter added Dealerships in 1965/1966 mixed in! I know I have one source somewhere, that lists those types of authorized performance dealerships someplace.

The latter 1990 Catalogs for GM Performance Parts used to have the list of Authorized Performance parts dealerships in the back!

In one of the soft cover Corvette racing related old books or maybe it was a Corvette News (I think it was Corvette News shows a side view with the squished down under the rocker side pipes) very early into the Big Block appearance is a black and white photo of the actually early Harold Whims real HD Built car, and I think it is white in that picture. I don't do pictures anymore, because I use an iPhone mostly now! But maybe next week I will post up that shot. Even the four Horseman bull$hitter guys don't post up that picture!!!!!!! Maybe because just a few of you love me, I will go find that Whims back in the day picture and post it up! I hate to give the investor crowd more material to develop their bull! But I am surprised they all missed that picture, in all of their efforts to document famous Friggen Race cars!