Hi,
I'm having the alignment done on my '62 this afternoon. Do you loosen the locking bolt that holds the upper caster/camber cam adjustment before adjusting? I'm talking about the nut and bolt at the top of the spindle support? No mention in the manual...

Thanks,

Paul

 

Paul,

Yes, that nut/bolt must be loosened to turn the 1/4" allen socket (though the grease fitting) to adjust the camber and caster cam.

Plasticman

 

Thank you my friend, I'll be sure the guy knows.



Paul

 

When it came time to have my car aligned, I went to the tire store and asked if their front-end guy knew anything about alignments on old corvettes. His answer was "my guy is the best front-end man west of the Mississippi", so I said OK.

After I drive the car over the alignment pit, I went down into the pit to talk to the front-end guy. He was looking at the front suspension with a strange look on his face and said "I ain't never seen anything like this before."

After about 2 hours of OJT, we were able to get it pretty close.

Jim

PS: I did drive my car to work today.

 

Old Chevy or Studebaker (same allen socket in grease fitting "system") alignment guys are hard to find!

Bring manual for "Show & Tell".

Plasticman

 

It's becoming more and more difficult to find an alignment person who "KNOWS" these old frontends.

One additional alignment "trick" that can be done on the early Vettes (and 49-54 pass cars) to adjust caster (before resorting to bending the upright as a last resort), is to loosen the bolts which attach the lower-INNER shaft to the cross member. Alignment shims can be installed BETWEEN the cross member and the shaft (front or rear as required). This will tilt the lower A-frame, thus, changing caster.
OK, so you say that your caster is fine, but it's the camber that needs to be adjusted and the upper-outer adjusting shaft doesn't have enough eccentric to make the adjustment. Well, that upper outer shaft changes BOTH camber and caster. So, with shims under the lower-inner shaft to change the caster, it MAY be possible for the upper-outer shaft to now have enough movement to obtain the desired camber.
Have I confused everyone?

 

Thanks! You make perfect sense to anyone who has done an alignment.
Joe

 

Got the alignment done, all went well.



The guys were super nice, I climbed down into the pit and explained to them how to adjust the caster and camber with the cams.
I have a couple of questions, here are the specs that we used out of the service guide.

Caster 2deg +-1/2
Camber 1/2 deg +-1/2
Toe-in per wheel 1/16~1/8

The car is on bias ply tires. It now drives nice and straight, but there is a loose feeling at center? I also noticed that when viewed from the front of the car, the tires seem to tip out at the top, is this normal?

Thanks,

Paul

 

tires tip out
i do it myself using Guldstrand specs:

Touring: camber 0
castor 3/4 to 1 1/4 pos.
toe 0 to 1/8 in
Tip: less castor, and toe out make it steer easier, (but may make it nervous) I like it!

DZ- thanks for that tip, i changed 1 lower shaft and now it has + camber. Maybe i'll put the old shaft back in

 

Paul,

Please do not listen to Matt's specs (see below). As he notes, it may make it more "nervous" using those specs. He is saying a mouthful there.

You used a combination of Radial and Bias tire specs, and is not the best combination.

1st. Your 1/2 deg. Camber setting is the standard C1 spec, and is a positive setting (tire tipped out at top "slightly"). Fine for Bias tires, but reduces the loaded footprint of the tire slightly. Not really a problem per se, but certainly not optimum for Radial tires (which desire 0 deg. camber for best handling and life).

2nd. Your Toe In of 1/16" to 1/8" is the Radial spec. Bias tires need more Toe In (spec is 1/8" to 1/4"), with edging towards more Toe In if there is any front end wear as I mentioned before. I would start at 3/16" Toe In with the Bias tires, and more if you see any vertical deflection of the third arm. More Toe In (per the standard C1 Bias ply spec) will give you the stable straight ahead steering you are looking for (at the expense of more tire scrub), Note too much Toe In will eventually lead to some feathering of the tire surface.

And regarding Matt's Caster spec (of 3/4 to 1-1/4 deg.), you want a good amount of Caster to allow the steering wheel to return to center (after a turn). His spec will not do that. Just note that more Caster adds to "off center" steering effort. The stock C1 spec of 2 degrees is fine, and is a good compromise for a C1.

Plasticman

 

Thanks for the feedback. Interesting what you say about the toe-in Plasticman. Since he didn't have specs for my '62 in his machine, we took them directly from my ST-12. It gives the toe-in at 1/16 -1/8, I would have assumed that would be for bias ply tires? The front end seems good and tight, I did have the kingpin issue on one side but it's now resolved. I'll go back next week and have them dial in more toe, hopefully he won't charge me for a full alignment again.

PS. The machine was very high tech. Among other things, it offered a real time three dimensional view on the screen. As he would manipulate a wheel, the wheel on the screen would move accordingly while the readings would be displayed in red and then green when he hit it.



Paul

 

Don't listen to me!
or Guldstrand

i'm using his specs since 94.
can't possibly work
:

more advanced guys should see the Gulstrand Engineering Preperation Manual, pg 12 to start.
This is not for guys that don't own and use their own castor/camber/toe gauge. I have no idea what anybody else likes, but i can tell u the handling is very tunable to get what u want.

 

Paul,

My mistake, I did not see the "per wheel" statement in your post.

We are saying the same thing on Toe In (just different wording and method). The ST-12 say 1/16"-1/8" per wheel, while the Owner's manual (and I ) say 1/8"-1/14" total Toe In. Same thing.

However, that is a wide range. Total Toe In of 1/8" is probably too little if you have any wear in the front end or don't like light feeling steering. If your steering is feeling light and too sensitive, then I would crank in more Toe for more stability. It is also the easiest of the adjustments, since it does not affect the other adjustments, and should be "cheaper" (cost wise)!

Your other option is to have them crank in more Caster, but that can be problematic due to the design of the C1 suspension. You may / may not already be at the maximum Caster.

This "assuming" that I am understanding your issue. Your description (loose feeling at center) could also be interpeted as a loose steering box or slop in the steering system.

Plasticman

 

As mentioned, but I will confirm, for radial tires (which I presume everyone EXCEPT the NCRS perfect Top flight cars has on their driven cars), the specs need to be a little less extreme. Also, again, as mentioned, you have to compensate for wear of these old frontends.
If you have recently done a complete frontend rebuild, or, your old frontend is very tight, I cannot emphasize enough to KEEP THE JOINTS GREASED!!!!!!!!!!!! These frontends will last a looooooooooooooong time (maybe longer than you) if you do so. Ya, ya, ya, I know, greasing and wiping off the excess is a mess! Well, that's what has to be done to keep these old cars in top condition.

 

Tom,

Your confirmation is always appreciated!

John

 

Thanks for the replies.
I'll give him a call to see what the toe setting was, based on his reply I'll see if we should dial in a bit more. I don't want to mess with caster, I'll leave well enough alone for now.
I am also going to adjust the bearing load in the steering box, I don't know if they did it when the chassis was restored.
I know it sounds weird that I'm driving it on the bias plies Tom, even worse, I have a brand new set of rims/radials with 1" WW's in the basement! For now I like the look and the period feel of the old school tires, I'm sure that after another few involuntary lane changes I'll come to my senses.



Paul

PS. Rest assured, this car has made me the fastest draw on the grease gun north of the 49th!