The best engine numbers reference guide?
Thread Starter
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,982
Likes: 6,209
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
The best engine numbers reference guide?
After several exhaustive discussions regarding broach marks, stamp pads, casting numbers and dates, pattern numbers, service replacement and CE blocks, I decided to get a reference book on numbers. Well, another one. I assumed a book "just on numbers" would be great.
I ordered "Chevrolet By The Numbers" from the NCRS site. I don't think it's very good. I know this stuff... it's listed everywhere. There is not one picture of a stamp pad, let alone a reference of a pattern number.
Anyone familiar with a guide that takes it up a notch? We all know about the basic number stuff listed in every Black Book, Dobbins, Noland Adams, Rick Miller, etc guides. I checked on Amazon and there are a couple of Chevrolet or Corvette engine books, but I get the feeling they are recycling the same old stuff everyone knows. It also seems like all these books are no newer than 1996, 1994, etc.
I'd like a book that really attacks issues like broach marks, fake stamps, pattern numbers, stamp spacing, numbers not normally discussed and the like. Any suggestions?
I ordered "Chevrolet By The Numbers" from the NCRS site. I don't think it's very good. I know this stuff... it's listed everywhere. There is not one picture of a stamp pad, let alone a reference of a pattern number.
Anyone familiar with a guide that takes it up a notch? We all know about the basic number stuff listed in every Black Book, Dobbins, Noland Adams, Rick Miller, etc guides. I checked on Amazon and there are a couple of Chevrolet or Corvette engine books, but I get the feeling they are recycling the same old stuff everyone knows. It also seems like all these books are no newer than 1996, 1994, etc.
I'd like a book that really attacks issues like broach marks, fake stamps, pattern numbers, stamp spacing, numbers not normally discussed and the like. Any suggestions?
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 38,897
Likes: 1,926
From: Washington Michigan
If all the books and manuals I use as technical references were together on one shelf, it would be about six feet wide, and my paper reference files currently fill four full-size file drawers, not to mention over 4,000 carefully-organized photos on my (fully backed-up) computer (and I have NOTHING later than 1967). I think you'll find pretty much the same situation for most guys that are really into the details of the hobby.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
I agree with John. Many of us have drawers full of material and many pics asembled over the years. It's all proprietary, no one is going to give it away. There certainly is a good argument for not publishing it as it then becomes a roadmap for fraud. The most valuable item is experience, which of course cannot be published.
Thread Starter
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,982
Likes: 6,209
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
Really? That's facinating... I expected the opposite, that the market would be flooded. I wasn't seeing it though. Well... I did write a college textbook in 1996... I'm up for another project. (I wouldn't call this my area of expertise, though) 
I received that book today and expected all kinds of pictures of stamps and numbers and dates and pads and markings and explanations and... well, pretty much everything but what I got.
I received that book today and expected all kinds of pictures of stamps and numbers and dates and pads and markings and explanations and... well, pretty much everything but what I got.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 49
From: Ventura Calif
I was a little disappointed in "Chevrolet By The Numbers", also.
For Castings I use: Chevy V-8 Engine Casting Numbers by Cars and Parts Magazine. Avail at NCRS web site.
For block stampings I use: "The Complete Chevrolet Engine Code Pocket Guide" By Ed McComas. This is comely called the "Lime Book". It's out of print but Ed McComas is a CF member and he might have a few extras?
John
For Castings I use: Chevy V-8 Engine Casting Numbers by Cars and Parts Magazine. Avail at NCRS web site.
For block stampings I use: "The Complete Chevrolet Engine Code Pocket Guide" By Ed McComas. This is comely called the "Lime Book". It's out of print but Ed McComas is a CF member and he might have a few extras?
John
Thread Starter
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,982
Likes: 6,209
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
I was a little disappointed in "Chevrolet By The Numbers", also.
For Castings I use: Chevy V-8 Engine Casting Numbers by Cars and Parts Magazine. Avail at NCRS web site.
For block stampings I use: "The Complete Chevrolet Engine Code Pocket Guide" By Ed McComas. This is comely called the "Lime Book". It's out of print but Ed McComas is a CF member and he might have a few extras?
John
For Castings I use: Chevy V-8 Engine Casting Numbers by Cars and Parts Magazine. Avail at NCRS web site.
For block stampings I use: "The Complete Chevrolet Engine Code Pocket Guide" By Ed McComas. This is comely called the "Lime Book". It's out of print but Ed McComas is a CF member and he might have a few extras?
John
Im talking about the next level: photos, discussion, comparison on broach marks, uncommon history, explanation of service and CE use, explanation of little-discussed things like pattern numbers, molds... photos we haven't seen in every paperback printed in the 90's, ya know?
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12,470
Likes: 1,548
From: Camp Verde AZ
C1 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
2017 C1 of Year Finalist
I think you want "How to Spot a Counterfeit Car", by George Hayduke, which hasn't ever actually been published, or even written, as it would simply be a how-to guide for would be fakers.
Doug
Doug
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,808
Likes: 24
From: Westport CT
the "Spot the Fake C2 Pad, Verify the Real One" book doesn't exist yet, as others have pointed out above. Grenning's Trim Tag Authentication book is just that sort of thing, for Trim Tags - highly recommend that book as a resource in this area of ferreting out forgeries.
Thread Starter
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,982
Likes: 6,209
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
I think a more informative guide could be produced without the "how to fake a pad" stuff. For instance, I was recently trying to ID an engine and someone started asking about the "pattern number." I knew little about it, and have found essentially nothing on pattern numbers in any of my books, although one reference guide called it a "mold number" without further explanation. Details like this can be explained from a historical context in a numbers/castings/stamping book without helping the crooks.
Then there's a lot of detail regarding the use of service engines and CE blocks. Again, Ive received some nice info from John here and Joe at NCRS, but this stuff should be somewhere where it can be looked up... the hobby could use better resources, right?
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 38,897
Likes: 1,926
From: Washington Michigan
For instance, I was recently trying to ID an engine and someone started asking about the "pattern number." I knew little about it, and have found essentially nothing on pattern numbers in any of my books, although one reference guide called it a "mold number" without further explanation.
Read, read, read.
