Starter Problems
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,552
Likes: 99
From: Lake Villa Illinois
St. Jude Donor '14
Starter Problems
I have had two starters fail. The first, a NAPA rebuilt unit was installed over the winter. It failed (shorted) two weeks ago. Napa couldn't get me a replacement in time. I am on the road in Massachusetts, so I find a Carquest that had one in stock. It's another rebuilt unit. Yesterday we get gas for the start of our return trip to Illinois, and the second one fails at the gas pump. I decided we are driving home anyway. This second one failed the same way. Shorted. Is this coincidence? Are rebuilt starters this bad? Anyone have recommendations for a better unit?
Gotta go now and find someone to help push start the car.
Gerry
Gotta go now and find someone to help push start the car.
Gerry
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 87
From: Northern MN
St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15-'16-'17
I have had two starters fail. The first, a NAPA rebuilt unit was installed over the winter. It failed (shorted) two weeks ago. Napa couldn't get me a replacement in time. I am on the road in Massachusetts, so I find a Carquest that had one in stock. It's another rebuilt unit. Yesterday we get gas for the start of our return trip to Illinois, and the second one fails at the gas pump. I decided we are driving home anyway. This second one failed the same way. Shorted. Is this coincidence? Are rebuilt starters this bad? Anyone have recommendations for a better unit?
Gotta go now and find someone to help push start the car.
Gerry
Gotta go now and find someone to help push start the car.
Gerry
Yeah, they can be that bad. I had to put on two starters on my car when we went to Canada. First one was a rebuilt unit bought here in the states. Got to Canada and went to the motel. Shut the car off to check in. When I came back to the car, no starter. Paid over $200.00 for a Canadian rebuilt unit and it lasted 2 weeks. It was a special "heavy duty" unit for a BB. BS!!!!
Someone can correct me but I think the rebuilt units are taken apart and only the known problems are fixed, ie brushes, etc. Still could have a bad field coil, bearings or armature. On a re-man unit they disassemble the whole starter and check everything before putting it back together. Not to say you cannot have a failure on a re-man unit also.
I finally took my original and one of the rebuilt units and pieced together a good working starter. It has now been on the car since 1983 with no failures.
Steve
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,149
Likes: 177
From: Chicago/Lake Geneva/Phoenix IL/WI/AZ
St. Jude Donor '06
Gerry when you get back in town see Larry @
Morton Grove Auto Electric
Address: 500 S Arthur Ave, Arlington Heights, IL 60005
Phone: (847) 394-1698
Morton Grove Auto Electric
Address: 500 S Arthur Ave, Arlington Heights, IL 60005
Phone: (847) 394-1698
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,354
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From: Close to DC
C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified 2020
In 34 years and 201342 miles on my car I have replaced the starter two times. Each one was a Delco rebuilt unit from a Delco distributor. Maybe it's luck, but that's my story. Dennis
Dennis
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,118
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From: Greenville, Indiana
I would think that any rebuilt starter you got from CarQuest or NAPA would have had the parts thoroughly checked before re-assembly. Meaning the armature and field coils checked for short/opens, new bushings, new brushes, armature commutator turned, lubed, new starter drive and new paint before it's boxed and put on the shelf.
If the fields and armature test good electrically during the rebuild process, I don't see any reason that starter wouldn't be almost as good and long lived as a brand new one.
If you go to the trouble of dis-assembling a starter to clean the case, there's no reason not to check the field coils before they go back in a clean case. No reason not to anyway.
I've owned/used many of those old Delco starters. The only one I ever had fail (shorted) was one that came off one of my new cars in '65. It was a year old and just suddenly started pouriing smoke out of it.
If the fields and armature test good electrically during the rebuild process, I don't see any reason that starter wouldn't be almost as good and long lived as a brand new one.
If you go to the trouble of dis-assembling a starter to clean the case, there's no reason not to check the field coils before they go back in a clean case. No reason not to anyway.
I've owned/used many of those old Delco starters. The only one I ever had fail (shorted) was one that came off one of my new cars in '65. It was a year old and just suddenly started pouriing smoke out of it.
Last edited by MikeM; Sep 6, 2008 at 01:12 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12,470
Likes: 1,548
From: Camp Verde AZ
C1 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
2017 C1 of Year Finalist
I have never had any luck with rebuilt starters, alternators or water pumps. A previous poster is correct, the rebuild house fixes the problem, replaces bearings brushes and solenoid with the cheapest ones available and puts it back together. They check for dead windings but don't rewind, thus, the starter probaly has most of the winding insulation burned off from the previous owner cranking his POS car that won't start because it is a POS, for minutes on end, and now the starter is waiting to fail once it is put on a tight motor.
Spend the money, buy a new Delco unit, that advice has served me well for over 30 years, ie, new starters/water pumps/alts purchased 30 years ago still work fine today.
Doug
Spend the money, buy a new Delco unit, that advice has served me well for over 30 years, ie, new starters/water pumps/alts purchased 30 years ago still work fine today.
Doug
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,118
Likes: 1,874
From: Greenville, Indiana
[QUOTE=AZDoug They check for dead windings but don't rewind, thus, the starter probaly has most of the winding insulation burned off from the previous owner cranking his POS car that won't start because it is a POS, for minutes on end, and now the starter is waiting to fail once it is put on a tight motor.
What you say is a distinct possibility and it's true that if the insulation is fried on the windings, it's a clock just ticking. No way that the rebuilder is going know that. Well, maybe.
I would add that I've revived many starters that would drag or not spin fast or crank hard enough or would do no more than just "click" with a simple clean-up and lube and they then continue to work perfectly for years.
It's your money. Spend it where it will do you the most good.
What you say is a distinct possibility and it's true that if the insulation is fried on the windings, it's a clock just ticking. No way that the rebuilder is going know that. Well, maybe.
I would add that I've revived many starters that would drag or not spin fast or crank hard enough or would do no more than just "click" with a simple clean-up and lube and they then continue to work perfectly for years.
It's your money. Spend it where it will do you the most good.
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Race Director
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From: CT
Race Director
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From: Taylor Michigan
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 199
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From: tucson az
Bad Starters ????
I have seen a LOT of starters that were just dipped and cleaned and put in a box labeled rebuilt. It's a crap shoot to see if you get a good one or not. As for the insulation on the field coils, there is an instrument called a megger that can be used to test insulation, most electricians have this tool and would gladly test your field coils for you.If any of you guys are located near Tucson I would be glad to do it for you. TRM
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Greenville, Indiana
[QUOTE=tomandjanet2;1567000615]I have seen a LOT of starters that were just dipped and cleaned and put in a box labeled rebuilt. It's a crap shoot to see if you get a good one or not.
I think you would be doing a lot of people a good service if you could direct us to the retail outlet's name that sells "rebuilt" products of this nature.
Good info on the "megger".
I think you would be doing a lot of people a good service if you could direct us to the retail outlet's name that sells "rebuilt" products of this nature.
Good info on the "megger".
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: CT
Volume rebuilders only replace parts that are worn or don't work. If the fields check ok, they don't touch them, same with the rest of the unit. This is done to keep the cost down. Most won't even true the armature. The end result is a unit that might last 50,000 miles, or only 5,000 or maybe only 1,000 - it's a real crapshoot. Unless you buy a brand new unit, built from 100% new parts (which is in most all instances impossible for an old car), you need to send it to a rebuilder who checks out and refurbishes all the components. I've used a palce called Precision Rebuilders in Michigan (get address from Hemmings). It is a quality rebuild. The fields are removed and if checked ok they get an expoxy coatings, the armature is turned, all bearings and springs replaced and the body either re-painted or powdercoated. All screw, etc are also all new. The cost is not cheap, about $250 and up for a starter or generator, but it will look and operated brand new for a long time - pay now or pay later as the expression goes..
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 199
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From: tucson az
[QUOTE=MikeM;1567000698]
The place I was referring to was located in New Jersey in the town of Woodbridge and I said was, as it finally went out of business TRM
I have seen a LOT of starters that were just dipped and cleaned and put in a box labeled rebuilt. It's a crap shoot to see if you get a good one or not.
I think you would be doing a lot of people a good service if you could direct us to the retail outlet's name that sells "rebuilt" products of this nature.
Good info on the "megger".
I think you would be doing a lot of people a good service if you could direct us to the retail outlet's name that sells "rebuilt" products of this nature.
Good info on the "megger".
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,142
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From: Taylor Michigan
A point here gentemen, ONLY Delco starters are "direct" fit for Corvettes. But that statement is for the few that dont realize the fact and incorrectly refer to the builder as the actual manufacturer of the unit. By whatever brand name you want to call the starter, its always going to be a Delco. Unless there has been a modified import with an aluminum adaper on its nose. But thats still not a OEM unit. There is nothing wrong with a Quality OEM rebuilt. The real problem is that there are so many out there that are not quality a person will try anything.
The other issue is that there are too many not correctly diagnoised as a bad or defective starter. The list is long on blame for a miriade of problems. The same goes to generators and alternators. But believe me there are good ones just as I use.....
.
The other issue is that there are too many not correctly diagnoised as a bad or defective starter. The list is long on blame for a miriade of problems. The same goes to generators and alternators. But believe me there are good ones just as I use.....
.
Burning Brakes
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From: Frederick Md
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Chicago/Lake Geneva/Phoenix IL/WI/AZ
St. Jude Donor '06
Volume rebuilders only replace parts that are worn or don't work. If the fields check ok, they don't touch them, same with the rest of the unit. This is done to keep the cost down. Most won't even true the armature. The end result is a unit that might last 50,000 miles, or only 5,000 or maybe only 1,000 - it's a real crapshoot. Unless you buy a brand new unit, built from 100% new parts (which is in most all instances impossible for an old car), you need to send it to a rebuilder who checks out and refurbishes all the components. I've used a palce called Precision Rebuilders in Michigan (get address from Hemmings). It is a quality rebuild. The fields are removed and if checked ok they get an expoxy coatings, the armature is turned, all bearings and springs replaced and the body either re-painted or powdercoated. All screw, etc are also all new. The cost is not cheap, about $250 and up for a starter or generator, but it will look and operated brand new for a long time - pay now or pay later as the expression goes..