I have a new TH 200 R4 I need to mount to my recently rebuilt stock 1961 283 engine. The problem I have is that the stock bell housing (not sure what else you would call it) between the engine and the tranny does not 'appear' to fit too snug with the new tranny. The stock tranny is a powerglide.

Can anyone suggest any good readings or solutions to mount a TH 200 R4 to a 1961 engine?

Paul
Parker, CO

 

It should bolt right up. If there is a gap between the bellhousing and the back of the engine block you probably don't have the torque converter engaged into the transmission pump, leaving the converter sticking too far out from the transmission. If this is the case do not tighten the bellhousing bolts as it will damage either the pump or bellhousing!

To correct the problem, spin the torque converter by hand while applying light pressure to the back of it. You should feel the converter engage with the pump and slide deeper into the transmission.

 

I know it should bolt straight up from what I have been told. Should the starter be aligned with with the flex plate? From earlier measurements, it looks like it should. My concern is there is space between the tranny and the bell housing that would allow for moisture to seep in from all around.

If I remedy this with a 1/8 metal plate, it will off-set the starter and the flexplate a bit. Therefore not getting a complete fit with the starter and flexplate.

Do you have one installed in your Vette? If so, please send me some details.

Paul
Parker, CO

 

provide a picture
Bill

 

I have a couple of questions/comments:

1. Does your 61 283 block have the "starter pad" and bolt holes/threads for an engine mounted starter? I doubt it. And that is what the 200 4R trans uses (an engine mounted starter, not a bell housing version like what the stock 61 283 uses).

2. The 200 4R bolts directly to the back of the engine with an integral bell housing that is cast as part of the trans housing, (not to any adapter plate, etc.) to maintain the correct distance for the torque converter, etc.

I don't quite understand what you are trying to do here. As Bill said, post some pictures.

And as ViperMike stated, if you are having hang up problems trying to bolt the trans to the back of the engine, you must make sure that the torque converter is all the way engaged to the trans front pump (rotate the torque converter back and forth while firmly pushing it into the trans). If it is not all the way in, and you try to "draw it in" with the bell housing bolts, you will cause the trans pump drive tangs to break.

Plasticman

 

http://www.PictureTrail.com/gid21828860&pathID=2086477

 

OK, it looks like you have a very modified (and short) original bell housing made into an adapter plate that you are trying to use to "use" the original bell housing mounted starter. But the 200 4R trans been not been shortened, so you now have a longer distance between the flexplate and the transmission (where the torque converter attaches to the flexplate, and the rear of the converter engages the trans shaft / pump).

I don't see how the 200 4R trans will possibly bolt up properly on that irregular surface of the modified original type bell housing (rear portion), without breakage of the trans mounting bosses. Could put some spacers in there to support the bosses, but I sure would not trust it.

The 200 4R trans will bolt up directly to your engine block (without the adapter bell housing portion), but then (as I mentioned before), you do not have the starter mounting pad / bolt threads to mount the engine mounted type starter that is used with that trans.

All in all, think it would make more sense to just get a later type engine block (with the starter mounting pad).

Where did you get the modified (shortened) bell housing?

Plasticman

 

Looks like you are trying to use the original powerglide adapter plate between the engine and 200R4. The 200R4 is a dual bolt pattern so it will fit other GM engines and will bolt directly to your 283. To use the original 3 bolt starter, you can purchase a thin adapter plate kit from Eckler's or Danchuk which has the starter mounting holes. Retails for about $100. Popular swap in the '55 -'57 Chev's. Early Chev blocks did not have mounting provisions for a starter unless it came with the Turboglide trans in '57 and later. Your block may have the holes to mount the Turboglide starter, but I have no idea if they line up with any of the later block mounted starters. You will also need a 168 tooth flexplate with holes that match your torque converter. Most popular flexplate on small blocks was the 153 tooth (about 13-3/8" dia). The 168 tooth is about 14-1/8" in diameter.

Good luck with your project.

 

1960Vette,

I looked up the adapter plate you referenced from Danchuck.

http://www.danchuk.com/itemform.aspx?Item=10100

Are you suggesting that I don't need the stock adapter plate (which is huge in comparison)? Bolt the suggested Danchuck plate to the block and put the tranny on?

Paul

 

That is correct, should be a simple installation. The adapter plate is 1/4" thick and comes with bolts, studs, etc for the installation. I am doing a changeout to a Turbo 350 in my '57 Nomad and am going go use this adapter kit. Just have not had time to do the swap. I wanted to use the 200R4, but did not want the headaches of hooking up the TV cable and getting it adjusted correctly with the bell crank on the FI unit. Will do it later out of the car when I have room to work it out. The adjustment of the cable is extremely important for the 200R4 & the 700R4 or transmission problems will occur. The Turbo 350 has a kickdown cable that I understand does not have to be used.

Also, do not forget the drive shaft yoke will have to be changed to match the newer transmission. Drive shaft length should be OK. For what it is worth, I just checked my '57 "548" block (K146) and it has 3 tapped holes on the block for mounting of the Turboglide starter, but again, I do not know if the later block mounted starters will work. I assume your '61 block also has these holes. The TG starter used all 3 holes, and I do not know of any other block mounted starter that used 3 bolts.

 

Not sure, but if you go with a late model type (engine bolt starter) you may have to get a flex plate / flywheel to go with it.

 

1960Vette,

The catch is I don't have a 57 nomad and a TH350. The description of the adaptor plate part number 10010 says it works for a 265, not a 283. There MAY be a difference in the back of the block between the two engines. Please send send me a picture of the block on your engine.

Paul
Parker, CO

 

The 265, 283, 305, 307, 327, 350, etc small block Chev engines (and all the '63 up 6 cyl and big block engines) all have the same bolt pattern. The Danchuk adapter simply fits between the block and transmission using the same bolts. '55 up V8 automatic transmissions all have the same bolt pattern where it fastens to the block -- Powerglides (both cast iron and aluminum), Turboglides, Turbo 350 & 400, 200R4, 700R4, and a myriad of later model computer controlled units. The purpose of this adapter is to be able to use the original type starter that does not bolt to the engine block. It simply provides a place to bolt the starter. I bought Eckler's (Classic Chevy Intnl)#19-68 during one of their discount sales.

Another problem you may encounter is with your floor shifter. I believe your present cast iron PG has a tailshaft with bolt holes to mount the shifter. I do not know of any other Chev auto transmission that has that feature, but there might be. You will also have to address the shifter linkage and the neutral safety switch issues. The shift pattern on the older cast iron PG was PNDLR, but was changed to PRNDL. I do not know if that was when Chev switched to the aluminum PG in '62 or if some of the previous cast iron PG's also received this change. The transmission mount on the 200R4 may not line up with the stock PG mount location. If you bolt the short adapter back onto your PG and line up the bolt faces as the transmissions are side by side (as in your photo) you should be able to see the relative positions of the mount locations.

Again, good luck with this project.

 

I think Lokar might have the shifter floor-mount cable I need.

Paul
Parker, CO

 

1960 Vette,

Can you tell me if I use the adaptor plate from Danchuck, can I use my stock starter? Or would I have to go with a 265cu starter?

Paul
Parker, CO

 

This starter question has been bugging me, so I rolled out the 283 I have on the engine stand and found the 3 starter bolt holes on the block. They were originally for the starter that was used with the Turboglide transmission. Your block should have these bolt holes. 265 blocks should not have these holes since the TG trans was not introduced until '57. I was curious to see if a later model block mounted starter would work. I found that the starters with the diagonal bolt pattern would bolt onto the block. I then installed a 168 tooth flexplate, hooked up a battery, and it worked!!!! It appears that the adapter plate would only be necessary if you were going to use the existing starter that bolts to the PG adapter plate. It is my understanding the starter with the diagonal bolt pattern is used with the 168T flexplate on Chev V8's, both small and big blocks. The starters with the straight across bolt pattern is used with the 153T flexplate. The last diagonal bolt pattern starter I bought, I asked the counter man at O'Reilly's for a '69 Camaro big block (396).

My next step is to bolt a 200R4 to the engine, bolt the converter to the flex plate and try the starter again. Probably will not be able to do that till this weekend, but I do not think there is going to be a problem.

Hope this helps. Kind of long winded response to a simple question.

 

Thanks for responding 1960vette. There are NO provision's on the stock 283 block for a starter. I don't have a picture to show. I am convinced from the tech support guy's at Eckler's that the adaptor plate they sell will work. Worse case, I use a different starter.

Secondly I know the starter gear (when engaged) will engage on the flexplate all the way. There should not be a concern with a 1/4 inch (or less) adaptor plate between the tranny and block.

The plastic cover on the bottom of the Th 200 R4 is questionable. I don't think it will tuck up under the 283 block nicely nor do I think it is designed to shelter the starter from the outside elements. There will be some exposure

 

any other comments?

Paul

 

Send me your email address and I will send some pictures of the adapter plate with an original type starter end bell as it would fit on the 200r4 transmission.

ebanks1040@msn.com

Ed