Just put a Moroso 20411 pan with matching pickup on the ZZ454 I'm reading for my '67. The Moroso pan is thicker metal than the stock Chevy pan as as such, does not have a provision for one of the pan bolts back by the oil filter. That is to say, it uses one less bolt than the original pan and has a span of about 4 inches with no bolt. Moroso makes no mention of this or any possible problems.

I used the one piece FelPro gasket and installed the pan, torquing all the bolts to 18 ft/lb (in a criss-cross pattern) as called out in the engine literature. After assembly, the gasket didn't look quite as tight at the place of the missing bolt. I checked the gasket by attempting to slip a .006 feeler gauge through the interface of the gasket and the block and it slides right through in the middle of the span at the "missing" bolt.

Has anyone experienced this and if so, what did you do to correct this?

There is probably enough rail on the pan at this point to drill the pan and use an allen headed cap screw but before I start reengineering what is supposed to be a top-quality product, I thought I would see if anyone else has seen the problem and what they did to fix it.

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Steve

 

wow....do you think it would seal with a regular three piece??...bummer....sounds like you may get out the drill.....that gap would leak.....good luck..

 

That's weird. I've never seen one missing a bolt hole. You got a pic? Have you called Moroso? Moroso generally makes nice stuff.

JIM

 

If you go to the Moroso page and look up that part number (20411), you can see there is a hole left out by design. Roy, "67-427ci" has the exact same pan on the same motor. His also is "missing" the bolt hole. I'm sure THAT'S by design. It's just that the design leaves a long unsupported area that in my case doesn't clamp the gasket well enough.

http://www.dasplace.net/Corvette/IMG...Pan%20Rail.jpg
http://www.dasplace.net/Corvette/IMG...Pan%20Rail.jpg
http://www.dasplace.net/Corvette/IMG...Pan%20Rail.jpg

In the first shot, you can see the unsupported span between the bolts at the oil filter. In the last two shots, you can see the reinforcement donut for the bolt that is left out.

Steve

 

Fel Pro lists two different one piece metal enclosed oil gaskets that are blue in color. I know it is common knowledge that the blue gaskets do not require adhesive but that is not true.

For sure the one piece blue one that they have listed as "severe duty" and is listed in the performance section of Fel Pro gaskets calls for gasket adhesive.

Do you have adhesive on yours?

Doug

 

I used the Fel-Pro OS 34407 R "PermaDry" gasket which is shown as 1991-2000 454

I have adhesive, "Ultra Black" at the four corners, just like Moroso recommends. Fel Pro specifically says NOT to use any sealer with this gasket but per Moroso, I used Ultra Black in the four corners. I MAY end up having to put a bead of RTV at this area on another gasket. I hate to reuse this gasket although it would probably be fine. I am seriously thinking about drilling the pan and using an allen head screw at that location. It clearly needs some clamping force there.

Steve

 

I now use an FP 1884 R that does call for adhesive after some bad experiences with the one that does not call for it. (i do not have the part # of the one I used.)

If you are going to switch gaskets I would suggest the 1884 R. On mine I put a bead on the whole edge.

Good luck

 

Well, I called Moroso and they said... you might want to drill a hole there and find a bolt that will clear... Soooooooooo if anyone else uses this pan, you might want to think about drilling the "extra" hole before you put the pan on!!

 

dont you just love doing their job for them??.....good luck and be glad you found it......we used to have a slogan.....they make it in california ( or wherever).....but we make it work here.......

 

This forum is great...I have a new zz454 and a new Moroso pan at the powder coater-So I guess I know what is comming...Bought the moroso oil pump too-Supposed to have the correct pickup- any problems or issues with that? So did you drill it??

 

Yes, I drilled it but there's a method to that. A machinist friend of mine suggested making a centering bolt to punch the EXACT spot needed for the new hole. Here's a picture of that.
http://www.dasplace.net/Corvette/IMG...ng%20screw.jpg

And here's a picture of it in the block, ready to do its job.
http://www.dasplace.net/Corvette/IMG...t%20center.jpg

Then I put the pan back on without a gasket and installed several bolts to be SURE it was positioned correctly. Then a tap or two with a hammer and the bolt shown above marked the EXACT spot for the new hole. The pan was then removed and using a drill press, I drilled just over a 5/16 hole to clear the new bolt.

Then I took an allen head cap screw and tried it in the hole. The head of the screw was too big so I had to turn about .025-.030 off the head to get it to clear the side of the pan. Then I had to make a spacer so the bolt cleared the weld bead on the pan. Below is the bolt before installation and then the completed job. After torquing ALL the bolts, including the new one, the gasket looks MUCH better and the feeler gauge runs into gasket any place I try to put it through.
http://www.dasplace.net/Corvette/IMG...d%20spacer.jpg
http://www.dasplace.net/Corvette/IMG...0installed.jpg

I like the Moroso pan but I sure wish I had known about the problem before I put it on the first time. I would STRONGLY suggest anyone using this pan either make a bolt like this or at least, use Ultra Black RTV along the rail to seal this area.

Steve

 

Steve I added the bolt on my pan, plus the RTV and have had no leaks for the last 3 yrs. A word of caution on Moroso's oil pickup, the bolts supplied in their kit are NC and the pump housing is metric.
Good luck.
Russ

 

Hi Russ,

Yes, I found the bolt issue with the pump threads. My pickup was welded from the factory so I replaced the pump with a M77HV as well while I was there. Today I decided I HAD to know if the pan was sealed now so I pressurized the crankcase to a couple of PSI and squirted soapy water all around the pan ... NO bubbles. That feels good!

I really believe Moroso should at least put something in the instructions about it. For that matter, there is plenty of clearance inside the pan in that area to have moved the rail in back there and then the stock bolt would have probably fit. I really like the pan but I think the lack of instructions is a real potential problem.

Today I masked off the motor and painted it the correct color... Chevy orange... and it looks very nice with the gold zinc pan against the orange block. The aluminum heads aren't bad either!

Thanks for the note,

Steve

 

Glad to see you got it fixed. I've seen *race pans* with the half the bolts missing for the DRCE style blocks....but I gotta admit I never ran across that setup before. That just looks funky and I'm surprised to see that from Moroso. But it should work great.

BTW- if anyone is looking for another great plan for a BBC in a C-2 or C-3..the Milodon *stepped drag race* pan 31188 fits great and is worth some power. Controls oil well in corners and braking as well as drag strip. It just barely clears the steering linkage..but fits.

JIM

 

I'm very leery of Moroso's stuff. I bought a set of their pushrod guide plates to replace the ones my motor builder sent with the motor (7/16 plates for 3/8 pushrods). I dropped one exhaust valve, got that fixed, and then dropped another one. I was baffled. The retainers just popped off and the spring was sitting in at the bottom of the head both times.

Turned out to have been that the guide forks were improperly made. The pushrods were rubbing on the base of the guide. The exhaust side guide fork was connected to the guide body by a piece of metal that had a radiused cut out in it. Eventually I would have gone through all 8 exhaust valves if I hadn't figured that out. My machinist didn't catch it because he'd never seen that before. Yeah, you're suposed to check the clearance, but no one does because when do you ever have a clearance problem on guide plates?

No more Moroso stuff.

 

Ok got my moroso pan back from powdercoater and am getting ready to pull pan off zz454 and put on moroso stuff and modfy pan. I am a little confused about the metric post on the oil pump bolts-will this pump bolt right up?? Also should I take pump apart and flush and clean before install??

 

The metric comment relates to the bolts that hold the cover to the pump. The bolts that Moroso gives you in the pickup kit are SAE while the bolts in the pump are metric. Thus, you have to reuse the original bolt, or go get a new longer metric bolt for the retainer on the Moroso pickup.

On my pump, the factory pickup was welded to the pump. I didn't like the idea of grinding it off so I bought a new pump while I was at it. Your motor will have the Melling M77 pump in it. I replaced it with a M77HV (high volume) just because with the 5W-30 oil they want you to use, I wanted a little extra margin in low RPM oil volume. I'm installing a Tremec at the same time so my highway RPM will be much lower than stock. I figured the extra oil volume at low RPM couldn't hurt.

By the way, it's a good idea to put a little blue Locktite on the bolt that retains the pickup to the pump cover. Oh, one other thing... the HV pump literature INSISTS on a new intermediate shaft (#IS77) that uses a steel collar between the pump and the shaft. I have a machinist friend that says that is the intermediate shaft that should be used even with the standard volume pump. He has seen the stock nylon collar break which then typically shears off one side of the pump drive and that's the end of the oiling system. My advice would be to make sure you get the new shaft at the same time. It's cheap insurance.

I did disassemble the pump and ran both the cover and the pump body across some oil-wetted 600 grit paper to make sure I didn't have any high spots. Then I cleaned the pump in the parts washer, put a little 5W-30 in it and assembled it to the motor.

One last thing, when you "tap" the pickup into the pump body, DO NOT do it while the pump is on the engine. The pumps are pretty easy to break. I tapped mine in while holding the pump in my hand.

Hope that helps,

Steve

 

Yeah, what Steve said ^^^^.

You might want to consider getting the pump pickup tack welded (one little weld spot should do) to the pump housing. How to Hotrod Big Block Chevys still recommends this after 40 years.

 

FWIW, with the bolt from the pickup to the cover of the pump, I DIDN'T weld this pickup but it's the first one I haven't welded. I have a friend that builds a LOT or race motors for mud trucks and such as well as some STOUT street motors and he said he hasn't ever seen one of the bolted Moroso's (with some blue Locktite on the bolt) come loose.

I DO think the steel collared intermediate shaft for the pump is a VERY good idea though, regaerdless of which pump you choose to run.

Steve

 

Another moroso question. When I picked up my crate motor- I knew I was going to moroso. I bought the pan gasket from chevy and it was expensive- anyone used the chevy one with moroso.