It appears to me that with the sellers past history of faking a car, one one must assume that this car is also a fake. I know I am new to this section but from research I have done over the last few months and from different people I have talked to, you could fake one of these cars pretty easiy due to the fact that there are what maybe 40 cars that are unaccounted for. All you would have to have is one of the serial numbers and get the car registered with that crooked company in Alabama and then to your state. The VIN tag could be redone if you have the right stamps, I know I have seen some that do not appear to be original that people clam to be original.

 

I have asked Jay for more information on the car and still have not gotten it. It doesn't mean it's a fake, but that I just don't have the information. Your right though, I have seen in the past people who fake cars to the point of using white glass cars with NO cloth on the car anywhere and even cars that have been pennent blue. It's truly a shame and has went on for years unfortunately some guys in this hobby are only out to make money quick.

 

Good eye ctjackster, they sure look like the same to me and I have worked with 53 and 54 Vettes in the past. Funny what a little darker primer can do. Look at the lines around the holes as well as the pin hole thru out and you will see they are the same, just pic taken from different angle and darker primer.

 

Funny that someone else saw the same thing, I was looking at them on my phone and thought it might be because of the small screen.


If you look at the cracks that come from around the top hole, you will notice that they are the same in the next picture also


So how can these be different??

 

Now back to my original post, it seems from a financial stand point the effort it would take to fake a car would seem to be worth it because if you have $150k-$200k in the car with new parts and labor if you can't do the work yourself and sell the car for $350k. This would be a great way to make some money as long as you can cover the lies to go along with the car. Paperwork can be reproduced, trim tags and VIN tags are easily reproduced, you just have to make sure the real car never surfaces if you go through with a scheme like this. It seems the gentleman that is selling this car ( I have never met this man or spoken to him) has done this and was caught.

My question is was he prosecuted for federal crimes or at a state level. I would assume the car was registered in Alabama and the in his home state to create a title so that it would appear real from a paperwork standpoint. Why would he not tell what the number of the car is, why would he hide something like that but to protect himself. I know I would never buy something like that without all info upfront.

Are there other stories of fake cars out there as I would love to hear about them, I know I have heard about stories about Corvette Challenge cars that have been copied but they were caught rather quickly. I must assume that when someone does this with a 53, the same thing must happen because it is such a small group of you guys that deal with the cars.

 

Brett Richmond,

The photo's are demonstrating what a real one should look like , neither side has has holes cut in it like the photo Jay has provided in his listing of a late car. The two photo's are not the same. Look at the listing and look at the 53 trunk photo provided.

 

So then, what are the [extremely subtle] differences between the two, that allows you to distinguish early from late trunk lids?

Call me thirsty for knowledge . . . .

 

Jack, some of the late, verified, original cars "do" have two rectangular cutouts behind the license plate, as evidenced by the attached picture. How many late cars have these cutouts? There would need to be a survey of at least cars #245 through #300 to know how many for sure. 1954's had the cutouts with a dessicant box attached to the backside with threaded, straight slotted screws, not phillips style. There were also steel threaded inserts set into the fiberglass for the screws to thread into. They were not sheet metal style screws. I've never seen a 54 without a dessicant box. Maybe others can chime in if they have seen an early 54 without a dessicant box. Later in 1954-55 the holes were round, cut by a hole saw.

Here is a pic of the trunk lid of car #274. It is a dead original car that had been off the road since 1968. Unhit, with it's original trunk lid and original red paint on the underside. It has the cutouts. This is two vin numbers previous to YesA59, Russ' #276. There was a wire mesh screen attached to the adhesive on the backside of the license area. The adhesive can be seen in the photo. After grinding the "adhesive" it was found that it was actually a type of darker resin. The small screws holes "were" found to be there under the darker resin but were filled with regular resin, like car #245 and possibly other late 53's with their "original" trunklids.


I'll be the first to point out that there are a couple different patterns to the way these cars were built, only as a rule of thumb though. It's hard to beat the practical experience of actually restoring several of these first 300 cars, taking them completely apart, putting them back together and obtaining BG, TF or GS for a living. You can actually learn alot.

 

Hey, WHERE DID THE FIRST PICTURE GO????

 

Brett Richmond,

Unfortunately, I don't know where the first picture is, but page 37 of Noland Adams book in the top right hand corner shows the same type photo as above with NO holes and states.

"1953 rear license plate mounts inside the trunk area. In 1954 a small fiberglass box was added to the back, with two air circulating holes between box and license area."

The above picture with holes and glue or what ever it is not even close to other 1953's that have had a hole with the same trunk form. Russ look at your photo's of the car lids we have amassed. You will easily see the difference like I did to the comparison of 274????

Loren,

But the original question was of Jay's 53 for sale. I have asked for photo's of the car to see if it had the same build pattern as the other 53's.

I have still recieved nothing from Jay. The frame is 54, the body from all indications is 54, some parts are 53 that he is selling with the car, tag and title. You will have to decide for yourself.

Note: Any pictures provided are only to help people, it's up to the reader to decern what is real, but 53's do have patterns on the way they are built. Noland did alot of research and I am truly grateful for the gifts he gave to the hobby!

 

well, some folks are able to admit their own boo-boos, others make pictures of the same trunk lid vanish without explanation. We all make innocent mistakes here, me more than most

 

Auction is over $35K, reserve still not met, bid history looks kind of strange?

 

Pete Wilzbach had spoke to Jay. He was told that it was a late 53 and had a $100k reserve.

Are you sure it's over? It looks like it has one more day.

 

Yeah, the auction runs until tomorrow. Jay told me as well that he wants $100k for it. I suspect the ebay listing is just Jay's way of soliciting calls and interest. He knows the car won't hit $100k on ebay with an undisclosed serial number.

Jay has done a decent job describing the project car. Too bad Jay won't post the serial number. Failing to post the vin # pretty much kills the auction from where I sit. Jay must think that posting the vin number would create an even worse scenario. Interesting approach.

Russ

 

What I meant to say is the bidding is over $35K.

 

Gotcha Loren. I see what you meant, now that I read it again. Sorry about that.

 

Jay sent me pictures that I specifically asked for to see if it fit the build pattern of other 53's. I will send them to you if you want.

 

Loren, the car was bid up to $38,325 and didn't meet reserve. Maybe they can sell it with 153 down in Texas, it didn't meet reserve either.

 

#250:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevr...5fTrucks#v4-35

 

Loren sent your book today, it should help.