63 fuelie vs. 413 dart
09-14-2009, 09:54 AM
#41
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ANY '63 fuelie Vette hitting on all 8 cylinders should break into the 13's unless it's got west coast gears in it.
09-14-2009, 10:02 AM
#42
This Beach Boys song is purely fiction, plenty of artistic and musical leeway given, after all, ultimately in a Beach Boys song, the words gotta' wind up rhyming !
Now if you're looking for a really fact based racing comparison look at Motor Trend's 1964 Ferrari GTO/Pontiac GTO matchup. Remember that one ?
Ray
Now if you're looking for a really fact based racing comparison look at Motor Trend's 1964 Ferrari GTO/Pontiac GTO matchup. Remember that one ?
Ray
I remember that one, I read it (and probably purchased it) at a supermarket in Stillwater, Okla. Refresh my memory, wasn't that based on partial imagination? They could not get a Ferrari to test so they winged it?
Regards
09-14-2009, 10:18 AM
#43
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The showroom stock '64 GTO with a tri-powered 389 was actually a heavily modified 421 plant from Royal Motors in Michigan, the tuners and sponsors for the "Royal Bobcat" GTO drag cars. Motor Trend was also very generous in the Pontiac's 0-60mph times and later (in 1984) did another GTO comparison, this time with both real live cars at Laguna Seca (with Dan Gurney driving). A little more realistic this time, the Ferrari won every testing category...except price. If you can find the links for the original article and the ensuing chapters that unfolded, it's a great historic automtive read.BTW, I believe that vintage Corvette collector Joe Conte owns the '64 Pontiac from the article.
Ray
09-14-2009, 10:38 AM
#44
Thanks, Jim. '68 was the year. Ed Hedrick is a good friend of mine and he set numerous records in his DragonSnake back then (A/SP through C/SP). He went on to be Grump's Pro Stock driver in the late 60s. He was part of the Moroso consortium (Jenkins, Hedrick, Stahl and Moroso). Wild times and great memories. Thanks for the info. I would love to see the Lombardo car.
He also raced a yellow 1969 Yenko Camaro bought new from Don Yenko and was sponsored by Yenko Chevy
09-14-2009, 11:44 AM
#45
Drifting
09-14-2009, 01:57 PM
#47
09-14-2009, 02:03 PM
#48
With 4.11 gears on the '63 and the Dodge (the most popular ratio for weekend racers back in the day), the race is pretty close, to be decided by the hand-foot coordination of the drivers. So Brian and Roger got it right.
The Dart was restricted to either a 3-speed manual or a Torqueflight in '62; in '63 the 273 cid engine was the largest motor available for the Dart which had evolved into a compact by then.
The Dart was restricted to either a 3-speed manual or a Torqueflight in '62; in '63 the 273 cid engine was the largest motor available for the Dart which had evolved into a compact by then.
I never said the 413 was a Dart, I said full-size Mopars. So the 4-speed or Torqueflite and 413 WERE assembly-line available in a Polara, 440 or whatever they called them.
I'm a Chevy fan (my son has a 388 '63 Chevy II post and I have a C2), but the race was not going well for the Sting Ray in the song.
"..my slicks are startin' to spin, but the 413's really diggin' in.."
09-14-2009, 02:08 PM
#49
And the next year they compared
And the next year C/D compared a Ferrari 2+2 to a gigantic Pontiac Catalina 2+2. Talk about your Royal Bobcat "ringers", that lead barge did 0-60 in 3.9 seconds!
Jim Wangers earned his pay helping to create and expand the Pontiac performance image in the '60s.
That's correct John, Motor Trend couldn't get a 250 GTO from Ferrari so they based their "road test" and "match race" on assumptions of what Ferrari's 1 of 39 cars must be like. Hmmmm, I don't remember too many early '60's Ferrari 1/4 mile times used in promotional material... The showroom stock '64 GTO with a tri-powered 389 was actually a heavily modified 421 plant from Royal Motors in Michigan, the tuners and sponsors for the "Royal Bobcat" GTO drag cars. Motor Trend was also very generous in the Pontiac's 0-60mph times and later (in 1984) did another GTO comparison, this time with both real live cars at Laguna Seca (with Dan Gurney driving). A little more realistic this time, the Ferrari won every testing category...except price. If you can find the links for the original article and the ensuing chapters that unfolded, it's a great historic automtive read.
BTW, I believe that vintage Corvette collector Joe Conte owns the '64 Pontiac from the article.
Ray
The showroom stock '64 GTO with a tri-powered 389 was actually a heavily modified 421 plant from Royal Motors in Michigan, the tuners and sponsors for the "Royal Bobcat" GTO drag cars. Motor Trend was also very generous in the Pontiac's 0-60mph times and later (in 1984) did another GTO comparison, this time with both real live cars at Laguna Seca (with Dan Gurney driving). A little more realistic this time, the Ferrari won every testing category...except price. If you can find the links for the original article and the ensuing chapters that unfolded, it's a great historic automtive read.BTW, I believe that vintage Corvette collector Joe Conte owns the '64 Pontiac from the article.
Ray
And the next year C/D compared a Ferrari 2+2 to a gigantic Pontiac Catalina 2+2. Talk about your Royal Bobcat "ringers", that lead barge did 0-60 in 3.9 seconds!
Jim Wangers earned his pay helping to create and expand the Pontiac performance image in the '60s.
09-14-2009, 03:11 PM
#50
Melting Slicks
All times were taken from road test from magazines during that time period, and were supposedly stock cars. That is really impressive ,if true. Was a 57 a lot lighter than a C2?
09-14-2009, 03:22 PM
#51
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I remember reading a article on quater mile times of SB classic corvettes and a C2 L79 turned 14.8, a L76 turmed a 14.4,and a 1957 4 speed fuelie turned 14.3. All times were taken from road test from magazines during that time period, and were supposedly stock cars. That is really impressive ,if true. Was a 57 a lot lighter than a C2?
All times were taken from road test from magazines during that time period, and were supposedly stock cars. That is really impressive ,if true. Was a 57 a lot lighter than a C2?
[/IMG]I am a full second under those times in a Pure Stock L79
09-14-2009, 03:28 PM
#52
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
09-14-2009, 04:28 PM
#53
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The article notes the curb weight of the '57 as 2880 lbs.
A few years later when R&T tested a '64, the listed curb weight was 3050 lbs. So, yes, the '57 was a lighter car.
Jim
09-14-2009, 05:22 PM
#54
Melting Slicks
13.25...... you must be related to "Grumpy" or something. Awesome picture.
09-14-2009, 08:05 PM
#55
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The brother of a good friend in high school had a 63' Fury with an 11:1 4V 413 and the push button automatic. The car looked like a heavy sled (the looks were deceiving) and the rear wheel wells were huge compared to most of it's contemporaries. When he first bought the car it would boil the skinny tires with any reasonable application of the throttle. Fat & sticky Caldwell retread tires (G60's?) took care of the traction problem. I ran against the Fury in my 70' GTO, when the GTO was in 13.50 ET trim. The Fury did not lose by much.
Finding a stock 413 to run is probably more difficult today than back in 63' (as if there were ever any stock Ponchos or Mopars tested
way back when C&D and MT were making myths).
09-14-2009, 09:58 PM
#58
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Speedpro heavy pistons, stock rods and crank, 151 GM cam untouched heads with a decent valve job, and lots of tuning and parts swapping every year to see what it likes .........
09-14-2009, 11:53 PM
#60
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what are you some kind of NCRS guy or something ???
(I hope every gets the joke from the other thread)
that hood has been there since 1968... and I have proof:
