C2 composite spring
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 3,029
Likes: 137
From: Nashville TN area
Tires are a big part of the equation
I read through this thread and didn't see anyone mention tires.. they are a big part of your suspension equation .. I overlooked this initially myself on my '64 restomod project and was horrified after installing the VBP monoleaf and shock package, when i did the ol' simple push down on the rear quarter "test".. i watched in amazement as the car bounced back and forth - the motion transferred from side to side as well as took considerable time to settle down..
A couple days later both rear tires were off and the car was supported with stands under the wheel locations.. a push on the rear quarter now reacted exactly as I expected, immediate damping of the motion, no repetition and no cross car transfer of motion. This with the tire equation effectively set to "sidewall stiffness = steel"
So I chalked it up to the 235/70/15 dry rotted tires being the biggest part of the bounce equation.. my 295/50/15's will be on the car this weekend and I can try again.. I expect with the new tires in the equation, it will be much better.
A couple days later both rear tires were off and the car was supported with stands under the wheel locations.. a push on the rear quarter now reacted exactly as I expected, immediate damping of the motion, no repetition and no cross car transfer of motion. This with the tire equation effectively set to "sidewall stiffness = steel"
So I chalked it up to the 235/70/15 dry rotted tires being the biggest part of the bounce equation.. my 295/50/15's will be on the car this weekend and I can try again.. I expect with the new tires in the equation, it will be much better.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,772
Likes: 694
From: Maryland
St. Jude Donor '05, '09, '15
I read through this thread and didn't see anyone mention tires.. they are a big part of your suspension equation .. I overlooked this initially myself on my '64 restomod project and was horrified after installing the VBP monoleaf and shock package, when i did the ol' simple push down on the rear quarter "test".. i watched in amazement as the car bounced back and forth - the motion transferred from side to side as well as took considerable time to settle down..
A couple days later both rear tires were off and the car was supported with stands under the wheel locations.. a push on the rear quarter now reacted exactly as I expected, immediate damping of the motion, no repetition and no cross car transfer of motion. This with the tire equation effectively set to "sidewall stiffness = steel"
So I chalked it up to the 235/70/15 dry rotted tires being the biggest part of the bounce equation.. my 295/50/15's will be on the car this weekend and I can try again.. I expect with the new tires in the equation, it will be much better.
A couple days later both rear tires were off and the car was supported with stands under the wheel locations.. a push on the rear quarter now reacted exactly as I expected, immediate damping of the motion, no repetition and no cross car transfer of motion. This with the tire equation effectively set to "sidewall stiffness = steel"
So I chalked it up to the 235/70/15 dry rotted tires being the biggest part of the bounce equation.. my 295/50/15's will be on the car this weekend and I can try again.. I expect with the new tires in the equation, it will be much better.
Just changing tire pressure can change ride quality. Lowering will reduce harshness and to some degree reduce bounce. Obviously there is a limit to how low you can go.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 468
Likes: 12
From: Pleasant Hill CA
shocks and monosprings
guys i have the 330 monospring from vette brake & products and
my car rides perfect?? i also have the delco sensa track shocks that
vette brakes recomended.
i have just a nice amount of bounce and my car rides like a cadillac.
it turns on a dime.
stay away from KYB shocks as they are way too rough riding and
they will jar the fillings right out of your teeth. they are crap.
good luck and try the delco shocks if u want a nice soft smooth
ride.
my car rides perfect?? i also have the delco sensa track shocks that
vette brakes recomended.
i have just a nice amount of bounce and my car rides like a cadillac.
it turns on a dime.
stay away from KYB shocks as they are way too rough riding and
they will jar the fillings right out of your teeth. they are crap.
good luck and try the delco shocks if u want a nice soft smooth
ride.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,032
Likes: 2,587
From: Del Boca Vista FL
I read through this thread and didn't see anyone mention tires.. they are a big part of your suspension equation .. I overlooked this initially myself on my '64 restomod project and was horrified after installing the VBP monoleaf and shock package, when i did the ol' simple push down on the rear quarter "test".. i watched in amazement as the car bounced back and forth - the motion transferred from side to side as well as took considerable time to settle down..
A couple days later both rear tires were off and the car was supported with stands under the wheel locations.. a push on the rear quarter now reacted exactly as I expected, immediate damping of the motion, no repetition and no cross car transfer of motion. This with the tire equation effectively set to "sidewall stiffness = steel"
So I chalked it up to the 235/70/15 dry rotted tires being the biggest part of the bounce equation.. my 295/50/15's will be on the car this weekend and I can try again.. I expect with the new tires in the equation, it will be much better.
A couple days later both rear tires were off and the car was supported with stands under the wheel locations.. a push on the rear quarter now reacted exactly as I expected, immediate damping of the motion, no repetition and no cross car transfer of motion. This with the tire equation effectively set to "sidewall stiffness = steel"
So I chalked it up to the 235/70/15 dry rotted tires being the biggest part of the bounce equation.. my 295/50/15's will be on the car this weekend and I can try again.. I expect with the new tires in the equation, it will be much better.
JMHO but; everyone: MAN UP ! ! ! You are driving a car with old technology for suspension and ride. It never rode well. It wasn't supposed to.
If you want the stock, original, sucky ride go with a stock, original replacement spring. If you are changing part of the suspension to achieve what you want to be an improvement don't be amazed that your change might require some tuning. That's why we work on these things. To learn and to achieve what we hope is an improvement over the original design.
Rich
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,818
Likes: 13
From: ar
I have tried to make the VBP rear spring stop bouncing with a lot of different shock and spring rate packages, always with no luck.
Since I have gone to the Musgegon Brake spring (TRW design) I have installed 5 or 6 of them on different cars and never had any of them bounce no matter what the shock package or tire the car has had.
I think VBP is a great company and I use many of their products, but for some reason their springs seem to bounce but they seem to ride very smooth.
C4,5 and 6s use glass springs and they do not bounce, but every 1981 and 1982 Corvette I have ever driven bounced. The early 1981 and 82 springs look very much like the ones you guys say are bouncing.
Jeff
Since I have gone to the Musgegon Brake spring (TRW design) I have installed 5 or 6 of them on different cars and never had any of them bounce no matter what the shock package or tire the car has had.
I think VBP is a great company and I use many of their products, but for some reason their springs seem to bounce but they seem to ride very smooth.
C4,5 and 6s use glass springs and they do not bounce, but every 1981 and 1982 Corvette I have ever driven bounced. The early 1981 and 82 springs look very much like the ones you guys say are bouncing.
Jeff
Last edited by silverslashstreak; Dec 1, 2009 at 05:24 PM.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 430
Likes: 15
From: eureka, ca
I have tried to make the VBP rear spring stop bouncing with a lot of different shock and spring rate packages, always with no luck.
Since I have gone to the Musgegon Brake spring (TRW design) I have installed 5 or 6 of them on different cars and never had any of them bounce no matter what the shock package or tire the car has had.
I think VBP is a great company and I use many of their products, but for some reason their springs seem to bounce but they seem to ride very smooth.
C4,5 and 6s use glass springs and they do not bounce, but every 1981 and 1982 Corvette I have ever driven bounced. The early 1981 and 82 springs look very much like the ones you guys say are bouncing.
Jeff
Since I have gone to the Musgegon Brake spring (TRW design) I have installed 5 or 6 of them on different cars and never had any of them bounce no matter what the shock package or tire the car has had.
I think VBP is a great company and I use many of their products, but for some reason their springs seem to bounce but they seem to ride very smooth.
C4,5 and 6s use glass springs and they do not bounce, but every 1981 and 1982 Corvette I have ever driven bounced. The early 1981 and 82 springs look very much like the ones you guys say are bouncing.
Jeff
I have the same spring as Jeff and I think my car rides well.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,050
Likes: 2
From: Orange Ct
I can only talk about a sample of one but I got my spring from Muskegon
(part no. 600-101) It is advertised as a 315 lb. It sat too high and had to put the longer bolts in. This was 3 years ago and there has been no change in the ride height. I used the special KYB shocks. I it was a nice ride but produced too much lean in corners. I had a Adico sway bar and installed that. The handling is fine now and I have pushed it hard with no evil traits showing up. It will over steer but in a controllable manner.
If I had it to do over again, I might have used a heavier spring. Loaded with 2 people, a full tank and some cargo, it will bottom out. If I take a trip like that, I put in the shorter bolts.
(part no. 600-101) It is advertised as a 315 lb. It sat too high and had to put the longer bolts in. This was 3 years ago and there has been no change in the ride height. I used the special KYB shocks. I it was a nice ride but produced too much lean in corners. I had a Adico sway bar and installed that. The handling is fine now and I have pushed it hard with no evil traits showing up. It will over steer but in a controllable manner.
If I had it to do over again, I might have used a heavier spring. Loaded with 2 people, a full tank and some cargo, it will bottom out. If I take a trip like that, I put in the shorter bolts.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 440
Likes: 9
From: Chicago
HI All, I have been experimenting again with ride height and bounce.(64) Right now I still have the 300lb mono spring with the 8" outer spring bolts. I raised the spring and inserted an extra rubber cushion on the bottom, round surface to round surface, heavy washer and screwed one nut with about 1.5" of thread showing, put on a locking nut.I kept my air shocks which I used to get the right height I needed but this spring set up gives me that. I put in about 30 lb air in the shocks and it this gives me a very comfortable stable none bouncy ride, finally. May be I got lucky but it works for me. I drive about 800 miles a week with this car over all kinds of roads and am happy for now.
Frank.
Frank.
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Brett Foote
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,977
Likes: 38
From: Massachusetts , USA,
6 years ago as winter project installed Muskegon TRW design 330 lb composite .............. no problems at all , no bounce totally satisfied.
last year after I installed new leather seat covers & new foam noticed very slight bounce ...... seats are much firmer ( very) than the old set .
My shocks are Monroe radial tuned , & installed 14 years ago ,time for new shocks & thinking of installing Vette brakes especially calibrated rear shocks designed for composite spring ... tires are BF Goodrich g sport radials , & knock offs, all suspension components have been updated .......
The Dog
totally satisfied.last year after I installed new leather seat covers & new foam noticed very slight bounce ...... seats are much firmer ( very) than the old set .
My shocks are Monroe radial tuned , & installed 14 years ago ,time for new shocks & thinking of installing Vette brakes especially calibrated rear shocks designed for composite spring ... tires are BF Goodrich g sport radials , & knock offs, all suspension components have been updated .......
The Dog
Last edited by StrayDog; Dec 5, 2009 at 08:30 AM. Reason: more info
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,818
Likes: 13
From: ar
HI All, I have been experimenting again with ride height and bounce.(64) Right now I still have the 300lb mono spring with the 8" outer spring bolts. I raised the spring and inserted an extra rubber cushion on the bottom, round surface to round surface, heavy washer and screwed one nut with about 1.5" of thread showing, put on a locking nut.I kept my air shocks which I used to get the right height I needed but this spring set up gives me that. I put in about 30 lb air in the shocks and it this gives me a very comfortable stable none bouncy ride, finally. May be I got lucky but it works for me. I drive about 800 miles a week with this car over all kinds of roads and am happy for now.
Frank.
Frank.
Jeff
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: Bridgewater New Jersey
guys i have the 330 monospring from vette brake & products and
my car rides perfect?? i also have the delco sensa track shocks that
vette brakes recomended.
i have just a nice amount of bounce and my car rides like a cadillac.
it turns on a dime.
stay away from KYB shocks as they are way too rough riding and
they will jar the fillings right out of your teeth. they are crap.
good luck and try the delco shocks if u want a nice soft smooth
ride.
my car rides perfect?? i also have the delco sensa track shocks that
vette brakes recomended.
i have just a nice amount of bounce and my car rides like a cadillac.
it turns on a dime.
stay away from KYB shocks as they are way too rough riding and
they will jar the fillings right out of your teeth. they are crap.
good luck and try the delco shocks if u want a nice soft smooth
ride.
Mitch
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 440
Likes: 9
From: Chicago
It is a lot of fun and good times driving my 64. Just started driving it again full time after a good all around rebuild. I live in Chicago and take it to upper wisconsin and other times upper mich. Right now in Traverse City area MI, and heading back today, started to snow a little and it doesn't handle to well on snow. Back in the early 70's it was fun turning circles in the snow but thank God those days are behind me LOL. Had to do a body off frame fix because of that This was probably my last up north trip this season and I am glad I found trough experimenting with my rear mono spring set up a good stable and safe comfortable(as much as possible) ride.
Good luck and have (safe) fun with your cars, that is what they were made for.
Frank.
Good luck and have (safe) fun with your cars, that is what they were made for.
Frank.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 3,029
Likes: 137
From: Nashville TN area
I'm going to guess the reason no one mentioned tires is because the original poster did not state that he changed the tires; he stated that he changed the spring. That being said, his tires should not be blamed as the culprit for the bounce/change he is feeling in his buttocks while driving the car.
JMHO but; everyone: MAN UP ! ! ! You are driving a car with old technology for suspension and ride. It never rode well. It wasn't supposed to.
If you want the stock, original, sucky ride go with a stock, original replacement spring. If you are changing part of the suspension to achieve what you want to be an improvement don't be amazed that your change might require some tuning. That's why we work on these things. To learn and to achieve what we hope is an improvement over the original design.
Rich
JMHO but; everyone: MAN UP ! ! ! You are driving a car with old technology for suspension and ride. It never rode well. It wasn't supposed to.
If you want the stock, original, sucky ride go with a stock, original replacement spring. If you are changing part of the suspension to achieve what you want to be an improvement don't be amazed that your change might require some tuning. That's why we work on these things. To learn and to achieve what we hope is an improvement over the original design.
Rich
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,032
Likes: 2,587
From: Del Boca Vista FL
ah but to the contrary, i mentioned tires for exactly that reason.. there was no indication one way or another how old the tires are that are on his car.. if tires were not eliminated from the equation that equals bad ride, then it is completely valid to note their contribution to ride quality! afterall, surely he didn't change spring or shocks just for the fun of it, the ride quality was likely bad before he started changing components..
We agree that the ride quality was likely bad before he started changing components. Now back to my position that these cars never rode well.
Great thing about this country is we can agree to disagree and not be enemies.
Rich
