Hiding MSD
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 5,297
Likes: 3
From: Carlisle PA
PA Events Coordinator
Re: Hiding MSD (3X2-427)
Eyh, why hide it? Show 'em what you're running.... :jester I tried stretching a pair of original sidepipe covers over my Hooker 4" SuperComps with No luck. Thought I could pass 'em off as factory originals. :lol: :lol: :lol: (JUST KIDDIN' GUYS)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,848
Likes: 3
From: Atlanta, Ga, Fulton
Re: Hiding MSD (tuxedo)
All Pertronics does is act as a point replacement. It is not going to do anything except eliminate point changes. Due to the solid state nature of the product you also might see some hgher RPM capability IF your old points were bouncing at higher RPM.
Pertronics is a nice replacement for the points but it does not in and of itself enhance spark intensity or the number of spark pulses delivered to each cyl. per revolution. Pertronics is simply a solid state trigger as opposed to mechanical points. Pertronics can be used to trigger MSD however then you have something different than just the pertronics.
[Modified by TheOman, 7:58 AM 3/13/2002]
Pertronics is a nice replacement for the points but it does not in and of itself enhance spark intensity or the number of spark pulses delivered to each cyl. per revolution. Pertronics is simply a solid state trigger as opposed to mechanical points. Pertronics can be used to trigger MSD however then you have something different than just the pertronics.
[Modified by TheOman, 7:58 AM 3/13/2002]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,848
Likes: 3
From: Atlanta, Ga, Fulton
Re: Hiding MSD (tuxedo)
All Pertronics does is act as a point replacement. It is not going to do anything except eliminate point changes. Due to the solid state nature of the product you also might see some hgher RPM capability IF your old points were bouncing at higher RPM.
Pertronics is a nice replacement for the points but it does not in and of itself enhance spark intensity or the number of spark pulses delivered to each cyl. per revolution.
Pertronics is a nice replacement for the points but it does not in and of itself enhance spark intensity or the number of spark pulses delivered to each cyl. per revolution.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,913
Likes: 283
Re: Hiding MSD (3X2-427)
I am not to keen on MSD, but if this ignition box replaces the coil, has anyone considered the length of the lead ignition wire, the one from the box to the distributor cap tower? This should be as short as possible. This is why Chevrolet mounted the coil so close and on top of the manifold. There is significant voltage and amp loss on long ignition leads. If it is 2 or 3 feet long versus the stock 5 inches, you may be loosing as much as you are gaining.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 605
Likes: 1
From: Hernando Beach Fl
Re: Hiding MSD (ghostrider20)
Chris:
You must be a pretty decent guy, Jerry told me he was going to give you a hand once you removed your old induction, he NEVER works on cars let alone drive 60 miles to do it.
SO HOW DOES MY ENGINE LOOK, I am going to St Louis to pick it up Thursday as well as his 365/M22 convert
"but if this ignition box replaces the coil,"
Mark:
The MSD is only an amplifier / trigger, it works in conjunction with a coil, preferably a hi voltage coil
jer
You must be a pretty decent guy, Jerry told me he was going to give you a hand once you removed your old induction, he NEVER works on cars let alone drive 60 miles to do it.
SO HOW DOES MY ENGINE LOOK, I am going to St Louis to pick it up Thursday as well as his 365/M22 convert
"but if this ignition box replaces the coil,"
Mark:
The MSD is only an amplifier / trigger, it works in conjunction with a coil, preferably a hi voltage coil
jer
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,913
Likes: 283
Re: Hiding MSD (3X2-427)
I just noticed the post on the PROTRONICS. I replaced my points with thier system. I love it. My vette had a high RPM (5000 - 6500 RPM lag) and the PROTRONICS cured it ASAP. Idles smother and starts better. My points were probably not set-up corectly but The PROTRONICS made such an improvement that I left it in. I think the bigest help was by-passing the ballast resistor. I also had a week voltage regulator. Replaced that as well and I now get a strong 13.5 - 14.0 volts at the coil. Before it was 2 -3 volts.
Mark-
Mark-
Heel & Toe
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Re: Hiding MSD (3X2-427)
I only saw the heads. I've also got a pair of 842’s that I'm going to have him look at. The motor was covered.
My father has convinced himself that I will screw something up when I put the tripower on. Thanks for the vote of confidence Dad :rolleyes: But it seems like a pretty simple bolt on to me.
My father has convinced himself that I will screw something up when I put the tripower on. Thanks for the vote of confidence Dad :rolleyes: But it seems like a pretty simple bolt on to me.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 605
Likes: 1
From: Hernando Beach Fl
Re: Hiding MSD (Chris396)
"But it seems like a pretty simple bolt on to me"
Chris:
It is but, if a nationally recognized NHRA WORLD record holder offered to help me install an induction system on my car, I'd let him and I've built 18 of these....I'd still let him help, even a pro can strip fittings / fuel bowls and inlet nuts. The basic installation is no problem unless you snap an intake manifold ear, but achieving a leak free installation and keeping it that way is another thing all together, trust me, not to mention the benefit of having him drive the car and set it up for you, something only years of experience can teach
jer
Chris:
It is but, if a nationally recognized NHRA WORLD record holder offered to help me install an induction system on my car, I'd let him and I've built 18 of these....I'd still let him help, even a pro can strip fittings / fuel bowls and inlet nuts. The basic installation is no problem unless you snap an intake manifold ear, but achieving a leak free installation and keeping it that way is another thing all together, trust me, not to mention the benefit of having him drive the car and set it up for you, something only years of experience can teach
jer
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,848
Likes: 3
From: Atlanta, Ga, Fulton
Re: Hiding MSD (ghostrider20)
I want to ask a question based on your request for an explanation of the way an MSD works and your statement about not beeing too keen on MSD.
If you don't know how it works and you don't know if it eliminates the coil or not then what is your basis for not being too keen on MSD?
If you don't know how it works and you don't know if it eliminates the coil or not then what is your basis for not being too keen on MSD?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,913
Likes: 283
Re: Hiding MSD (3X2-427)
I was using “keen” in the vernacular. I should elaborate, I am not knowledgeable on the MSD system. I know they make numerous ignition parts, distributors and systems. I was simply asking what an MSD BOX is. I have seen coils, Rev limiters etc in the shape of a “box”. I guess I should have stayed out of this thread.
Mark
Mark
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 605
Likes: 1
From: Hernando Beach Fl
Re: Hiding MSD (ghostrider20)
Mark
Never feel the need NOT to ask. I'm 52, have restored dozens, raced and wrecked more than my share and never hesitate to ask for help.
The MSD "box" is a spark amplifier that triggers the distributor. It provides a spark that is of a longer duration than stock and much hotter allowing the engine to make the most efficient use of the fuel it is burning thus making more horsepower, cleaner exhaust as well as combustion chambers. A coil is still necessary and the hotter the better. The simplest explanation may be that the MSD makes a physically large spark for a long time.
jer
Never feel the need NOT to ask. I'm 52, have restored dozens, raced and wrecked more than my share and never hesitate to ask for help.
The MSD "box" is a spark amplifier that triggers the distributor. It provides a spark that is of a longer duration than stock and much hotter allowing the engine to make the most efficient use of the fuel it is burning thus making more horsepower, cleaner exhaust as well as combustion chambers. A coil is still necessary and the hotter the better. The simplest explanation may be that the MSD makes a physically large spark for a long time.
jer
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,848
Likes: 3
From: Atlanta, Ga, Fulton
Re: Hiding MSD (ghostrider20)
Yeah just ask away.
If you had had a bad experience with service or with the products or whatever share it. The way your note read I could not tell what the concern was with the units. It seemed like you never actually owned one but at the same time it seemed you had an issue with the units. Did not add up. I currently have two and both work great but I must admit I get the creeps thinking about a shut down on the road due to some electrical glitch in the box.
Recently I drove one of my cars from Ct to Atlanta and while I was not "worried" the MSD was going to "go away" I had no back up plan if the ignition did shut down. I was only wondering if you had such an experience either with your own car or with a friends car.
No offense meant I hope none was taken
If you had had a bad experience with service or with the products or whatever share it. The way your note read I could not tell what the concern was with the units. It seemed like you never actually owned one but at the same time it seemed you had an issue with the units. Did not add up. I currently have two and both work great but I must admit I get the creeps thinking about a shut down on the road due to some electrical glitch in the box.
Recently I drove one of my cars from Ct to Atlanta and while I was not "worried" the MSD was going to "go away" I had no back up plan if the ignition did shut down. I was only wondering if you had such an experience either with your own car or with a friends car.
No offense meant I hope none was taken
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,913
Likes: 283
Re: Hiding MSD (3X2-427)
ON the contrary I have heard great things about MSD products. I have never used an MSD product because my local speed shop was big on Accell. I had a Mallory Dual Point in my Chevelle, and an Accell dual point in my 70 Chevy pick-up. I always wanted to go bigger and better but money was short in high school and non-existent in college. I bought most my parts used from guys that were upgrading to MSD, etc. I bought my vette about 2 years ago and one the first things I did was install the PROTRONICS. I am trying to keep some what of a stock appearance so I was reluctant to install a full electronic upgrade. I paired the Protronics with an Accell supper coil, same as stock size. I also ran 8mm accell plug wires painfully under all the shrouding. From the top it looks stock. I am working on not being one of those numbers guys!!! After all, I bought the car for me. I looked under the hood of my 65 and there is ample room by the inner fenders that are fairly unobtrusive. May be a good place to plant some mods. There is also some room inside the car near the fire-wall behind the radio. If you wanted to run some wire. This would keep it cool as well, I am not sure that it is critical with this part or not. Some boo-hoo mods other then stock, but to each his own.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,848
Likes: 3
From: Atlanta, Ga, Fulton
Re: Hiding MSD (ghostrider20)
Keeping MSD cool is important. I also have heard they Buzz or HUM, don't know because both of mine are in the engine compartment up infront of the radiator support. You might want to give that noise issue some consideration. I wonder how many MSD failures are from being located too close to the engine and as you know everything is close to the engine on a mid year.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 608
Likes: 4
From: houston, texas usa tx
Re: Hiding MSD (TheOman)
Some of you have discussed the spooky feeling you get when you really start to think that the " red Box " could short out and shut the ignition down. In the late 70's I had a 73 Z-28 with all the performance goodies. I had the MSD hooked up to a dual point distributor and enjoyed it. But it did shut down on me and it was a five mile walk to the house. In any case at the time MSD also enclosed some coil wires " jumpers" that in the case of failure you could easily bypass the box and return the car to the stock coil points set up. In any case I was an idiot freshmen in college at the time and of course did not have those jumper wires on me at the time. I carried them after that in my trunk always. And it was very easy to bypass the MSD system with those wires. In any case I wondered if they still made those available to MSD owners. If not for those of you that just want that piece of mind you might ask MSD about them. It may save you a long walk home.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,848
Likes: 3
From: Atlanta, Ga, Fulton
Re: Hiding MSD (tuxedo)
The issue of getting around the "Big Red Box" is not such a big deal as you say. You can jumper your way around it. What happens when you have the MSD distrib. also? That is the one that leaves me with the sinking feeling in my gut.
I think you can run the MSD distrib. without the box but I need to look at the wiring diagrams supplied by MSD. If it can be done I am going to get some jumpers made up before I try any long trips. 5 miles on foot is nothing to sneeze at. When I was rolling down I-95 and then I-85 from Ct. to Atlanta sometines I went 5 miles without see any signs of civilization. More so in the Carolinas on I-85 but even if you see civilization what is the chance your gonna find parts for an MSD???
One of my cars is down right now for some cyl head work, I am going to look into that issue this week.
I think you can run the MSD distrib. without the box but I need to look at the wiring diagrams supplied by MSD. If it can be done I am going to get some jumpers made up before I try any long trips. 5 miles on foot is nothing to sneeze at. When I was rolling down I-95 and then I-85 from Ct. to Atlanta sometines I went 5 miles without see any signs of civilization. More so in the Carolinas on I-85 but even if you see civilization what is the chance your gonna find parts for an MSD???
One of my cars is down right now for some cyl head work, I am going to look into that issue this week.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 608
Likes: 4
From: houston, texas usa tx
Re: Hiding MSD (TheOman)
Oman, I suspect if you broke down the only parts you may be able to get over in that area are John Deere parts from the farmers! Good luck with Jumpers and maybe call MSD with the distributor question. I am sure they have had it asked before.