Had that exact problem on a '67 Camaro years ago...
Engine noise
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,665
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From: Buffalo New York
Engine noise
I have a zz383 Stroker in my '66. It has been in there for four years. I am running Patriot block hugger headers to Allen's sidepipes. With the hood open the other day I could hear a ticking noise like a lifter out of adjustment. Hmmm but I have a roller cam and rockers so I wasn't sure they could make such a noise. I shut it off and waited for the engine to cool down. I then noticed that the two header bolts nearest the noise where loose. I tightened them down and checked the others. I restarted the the engine and the noise was reduced but still slightly there. I am wondering now if the header gasket is blown because it was loose under the flange for some time. Could this have been an exhaust leak all along? Any thoughts or comments?
Dennis
Dennis
Last edited by Dennis Beck; Jun 7, 2010 at 06:16 PM.
Race Director
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C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified 2020
Sounds like you found the culpret, especially since tightening the bolts made a difference. You may still have just a little bit of material missing and still letting some exhaust escape. 
Dennis
Dennis
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,665
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From: Buffalo New York
OK. Thanks for your comments. I was hoping somebody was going to say the exhaust leak could give that noise. So I will get a new header gasket and try to find some system to lock those header bolts so they can't back out.
Dennis
Dennis
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: 50 kilometers outside Oslo Norway
What about changing to copper gaskets?
They are a little thicker i think and supposed to be better.
I have never tryed them but i have ordred a set of copper/bronze gaskets wich i plan to ut on my car
They are a little thicker i think and supposed to be better.
I have never tryed them but i have ordred a set of copper/bronze gaskets wich i plan to ut on my car
Le Mans Master
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From: Rocklin California
Been there too pal. The tick can fool you and sound just like a noisy rocker.
Le Mans Master
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Jim
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Melting Slicks
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From: Arizona
Dennis
I do have copper gaskets. They do eliminate the noise that a fiber gasket makes when it leaks! BUT, that just means you can't hear the leak!
I ran mine during break in, and could see where the leaks were though I could not hear them. So I let it cool down and then retorqued (AL Heads), three times before the leaks stopped.
I can't see the black soot anymore and I never did hear the leaks, so I guess it's cured. I expect the copper will outlast the fiber.
I do have copper gaskets. They do eliminate the noise that a fiber gasket makes when it leaks! BUT, that just means you can't hear the leak!
I ran mine during break in, and could see where the leaks were though I could not hear them. So I let it cool down and then retorqued (AL Heads), three times before the leaks stopped.
I can't see the black soot anymore and I never did hear the leaks, so I guess it's cured. I expect the copper will outlast the fiber.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: 50 kilometers outside Oslo Norway
I have ordered a set of copper gaskets for my headers.
I actually have decided to wait to put the new headers on until i recive the new gaskets.
Bt if they dont come today the headers will be mounted on the car because i dont have the time to wait anymore(suppose they will come tomorrow if i mount the headers today)
When after tighten when the engine has been hot i am always afraid that a bolt will break.
Wonder if lock washers would help this ?
I actually have decided to wait to put the new headers on until i recive the new gaskets.
Bt if they dont come today the headers will be mounted on the car because i dont have the time to wait anymore(suppose they will come tomorrow if i mount the headers today)
When after tighten when the engine has been hot i am always afraid that a bolt will break.
Wonder if lock washers would help this ?
Last edited by TheSaint; Jun 8, 2010 at 12:53 AM.
Le Mans Master
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From: MA
I wouldn't tighten any bolt when hot. Let it cool. There's a couple types of header bolts that have some sort of "lock". Stage 8 bolts are one type. They use a piece of metal like a washer that goes over the bolt head and is shaped so you can place it between the bolt and header which keeps the bolt from turning. I have Stage 8 bolts but haven't needed to use the "locks". The bolts stay tight - no leaks. I'm using Doug's headers, Edelbrock gaskets with aluminum heads. The "true-ness" of the header flange could play a factor. For a short time I used rubber header gaskets that came with the headers. I had leaks.
larry
larry
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Buffalo New York
I wouldn't tighten any bolt when hot. Let it cool. There's a couple types of header bolts that have some sort of "lock". Stage 8 bolts are one type. They use a piece of metal like a washer that goes over the bolt head and is shaped so you can place it between the bolt and header which keeps the bolt from turning. I have Stage 8 bolts but haven't needed to use the "locks". The bolts stay tight - no leaks. I'm using Doug's headers, Edelbrock gaskets with aluminum heads. The "true-ness" of the header flange could play a factor. For a short time I used rubber header gaskets that came with the headers. I had leaks.
larry
larry
Dennis
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St. Jude Donor '09-'11-'12-'13-'14
Dennis,
Hope you put some anti seize on the bolts threads going into those aluminum heads.
Another thought is hi-temp silicone rubber. I always put a bead of it around each exhaust hole on both sides of the gasket and it really seals the thing up well, even when you can't re-torque the bolts.
Good Luck
Hope you put some anti seize on the bolts threads going into those aluminum heads.
Another thought is hi-temp silicone rubber. I always put a bead of it around each exhaust hole on both sides of the gasket and it really seals the thing up well, even when you can't re-torque the bolts.
Good Luck
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 60
From: Buffalo New York
Dennis,
Hope you put some anti seize on the bolts threads going into those aluminum heads.
Another thought is hi-temp silicone rubber. I always put a bead of it around each exhaust hole on both sides of the gasket and it really seals the thing up well, even when you can't re-torque the bolts.
Good Luck
Hope you put some anti seize on the bolts threads going into those aluminum heads.
Another thought is hi-temp silicone rubber. I always put a bead of it around each exhaust hole on both sides of the gasket and it really seals the thing up well, even when you can't re-torque the bolts.
Good Luck
Right now I'm going for the retightening and see where I get.Dennis
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: 50 kilometers outside Oslo Norway
I am using the gaskets that came with the Headman headers(Headman gaskets)but i have ordered copper gaskets.
The bolts i use is from ARP and is stainless steel. I have tighten the bolt as much as i could using a wrench
I still have to weld the exhaust pipes on to the collectors.
I have never used this type of collectors before(ball and cone)
Another thing is that the right header is longer when looking at the headers standing under the car.
I suppose it is ment to be this way so the header cleares the starter motor.
The right header is also very close to the idler arm
The bolts i use is from ARP and is stainless steel. I have tighten the bolt as much as i could using a wrench
I still have to weld the exhaust pipes on to the collectors.
I have never used this type of collectors before(ball and cone)
Another thing is that the right header is longer when looking at the headers standing under the car.
I suppose it is ment to be this way so the header cleares the starter motor.
The right header is also very close to the idler arm
Last edited by TheSaint; Jun 8, 2010 at 05:21 PM.
Team Owner
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From: Washington Michigan
Unless you use Stage 8 locking header bolts (or safety-wired drilled bolts), header gasket replacement will become regular maintenance, as the bolts WILL loosen.
HEADER BOLTS 101
The stock iron manifolds use 2-1/4"-long bolts; when they're torqued, they stretch slightly to maintain clamping force in the joint to the head during heat cycling.
Header bolts are only 3/4"-long, and are too short to stretch at all when torqued, so initial clamping force in the joint disappears very quickly with heat cycling, and the bolts start to loosen, resulting in blown header gaskets, exhaust leaks, etc. If you don't have a positive mechanical lock on the header bolts (like Stage 8 or safety-wired bolts) to prevent loosening, they WILL loosen. Just one of the many joys of headers.
BTW, most good aftermarket aluminum heads have Helicoils in the intake and exhaust manifold bolt holes.
HEADER BOLTS 101
The stock iron manifolds use 2-1/4"-long bolts; when they're torqued, they stretch slightly to maintain clamping force in the joint to the head during heat cycling.
Header bolts are only 3/4"-long, and are too short to stretch at all when torqued, so initial clamping force in the joint disappears very quickly with heat cycling, and the bolts start to loosen, resulting in blown header gaskets, exhaust leaks, etc. If you don't have a positive mechanical lock on the header bolts (like Stage 8 or safety-wired bolts) to prevent loosening, they WILL loosen. Just one of the many joys of headers.
BTW, most good aftermarket aluminum heads have Helicoils in the intake and exhaust manifold bolt holes.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: cookeville tennessee
this is what happen whit it being loose it has burn out some of the gasket and you still or getting a little blow by. Need to put a new gasket in the car.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,442
Likes: 64
From: 50 kilometers outside Oslo Norway
Do you have a part number at some vendor for the bolts you are talking about? Here in Norway we only have metric bolts and screws
Sorry i did not mean to hijack your thread Dennis Beck
Sorry i did not mean to hijack your thread Dennis Beck
Unless you use Stage 8 locking header bolts (or safety-wired drilled bolts), header gasket replacement will become regular maintenance, as the bolts WILL loosen.
HEADER BOLTS 101
The stock iron manifolds use 2-1/4"-long bolts; when they're torqued, they stretch slightly to maintain clamping force in the joint to the head during heat cycling.
Header bolts are only 3/4"-long, and are too short to stretch at all when torqued, so initial clamping force in the joint disappears very quickly with heat cycling, and the bolts start to loosen, resulting in blown header gaskets, exhaust leaks, etc. If you don't have a positive mechanical lock on the header bolts (like Stage 8 or safety-wired bolts) to prevent loosening, they WILL loosen. Just one of the many joys of headers.
BTW, most good aftermarket aluminum heads have Helicoils in the intake and exhaust manifold bolt holes.
HEADER BOLTS 101
The stock iron manifolds use 2-1/4"-long bolts; when they're torqued, they stretch slightly to maintain clamping force in the joint to the head during heat cycling.
Header bolts are only 3/4"-long, and are too short to stretch at all when torqued, so initial clamping force in the joint disappears very quickly with heat cycling, and the bolts start to loosen, resulting in blown header gaskets, exhaust leaks, etc. If you don't have a positive mechanical lock on the header bolts (like Stage 8 or safety-wired bolts) to prevent loosening, they WILL loosen. Just one of the many joys of headers.
BTW, most good aftermarket aluminum heads have Helicoils in the intake and exhaust manifold bolt holes.
Last edited by TheSaint; Jun 8, 2010 at 07:04 PM.
Team Owner
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From: Washington Michigan