Brumbach

To begin with, I've tried every trick provided by the forum to install. Here's where I stand:

The lower tube is in place. I drove it in using pin punch that matched the diameter of the hole in the block. As you know, the lower tube is flared on one end. Supposedly the flared end seats in the groove cut in the block hole passage which is .78 inches below the block deck. When driving the lower tube in, the flared end sheared off at the opening. I continued driving the tube to the groove level.

Should the flared end have sheared off?

When installing the upper tube, I froze the tube overnite and using a box end wrench slipped over the tube down to the tube stop, I attempted to drive the tube into place. the end of the upper tube being installed began to deform so I stopped. It never did begin to go in the hole. I've taken a measurement of the hole and also of the end of the upper end tube. Hole = .369" Tube = .445". I ordered another upper tube from another vendor and it measures .443".

Is the tube suppose to compress that much?

Block castings 3782870 H214

MikeM

Are you sure the top of that hole isn't buggered up?

If the measurements you provided are nominal measurements for the mating parts, I'd probably run a tapered reamer in the very top of the hole to give the tube a lead to start in.

Put a little pinch of dum dum in the hole before reaming, then remove it and any chips.

66jack

Should the flared end have sheared off?

NO
YOU NEED TO FISH IT OUT, REMOVE PAN TO DO IT

Brumbach

I can pull the pan and remove the lower tube...no problem. But when I buy replacement tube, how is the flared end suppose to go into a hole that is considerably smaller than the diameter of the flared end?

66jack

It should "roll" inward a little to make the compression aspect of it hold it in place and not break off.

I also used a 1/4" deep socket to help drive it in place to seat it.
Make sure the socket fits the BLOCK hole and not to small or it will burr the inside.

Good luck

jack

Brumbach

The block was decked (slightly) to cleanup the mating surface. The hole edge is perfectly round and clean or it was before I attempted to drive the tube in.

Brumbach

Would you believe a 1/4" socket is too big? I suppose the od may differ per tool mfg.

66jack

Did you try A DEEP SOCKET? It seems that those are slender enough to fit.

Brumbach

No I didn't. Don't have one but will buy one to check out. Back to the installed lower tube... I assume if not removed and replaced, it could slip deeper into the oil pan and potentially collide with the rotation of the crankshaft. Is this the reason you recommend pulling? Using a light, it clearly is resting in the groove. Not sure how much of the lip (if any) of the flared end survived the insertion, however; it is tightly installed though. The engine is currently on the hoist with tranny attached. I hate to pull the pan and undo the pain I took to seal everything so I wouldn't have leaks but will if I run the risk of a catastrophic failure. What do you think?

66jack

i would rather be safe than sorry

jack

MikeM

You can do what you want. If that lower tube was tight, all the way down, I don't believe it will go anywhere. If it does go in the pan, it'll just "be there". The purpose of the tube is to keep the dipstick straight and out of the crankshaft.

The reason the top of the tube sheared off is because you used a punch sized with the block hole. Should have used a tapered, shouldered punch that allowed the lip to peel inboard.

I don't know if the dip stick hole has a chamfered top edge or not. If it did, decking the block could have removed it. I'd chamfer the hole in the block assuming your dimensions you posted check out.

Brumbach

I didn't do it your way, i.e., chamfer the opening but I did grind down the tube od. Got it installed and created another problem when the id compressed to the point that dipstick couldn't pass through. I'll order another tube and this time try your way. BTW, what's dum dum? Is that puddy?

MikeM

Yes. Plumbers putty will work too.

If I get reminded in the morning, I'll measure a couple blocks to check hole size. I may even have a new GM tube around I can measure. Or, maybe someone here could do some measuring tonight for you?

No sense in destroying another tube if the dimensions aren't right.

Brumbach

Thanks Mike. I started to order another but decided to wait to see if forum responses might shed additional light on my problem. The first tube came from Paragon it was chrome. The second one came from Vol Vette and it was natural. Both were too large as described. Vol Vette is close to me so I called them to have them compare other tubes in stock for other models that might be smaller in diameter and more compatible with my block. No luck. I'll hold tight for now. Bill

MikeM

I just looked at three blocks I have. All of them have a very large chamfer in the block deck to lead that tube in.

The battery is dead in my digital calipers so I'll have to get a battery and then I can do some measuring. Stand by or maybe someone else will post the info.

0adam@volvette

Most likely, the problem you are having is because the old tube sheered off and is still in the hole in the block. Since the block was decked, it could make it very difficult to see that you actually have an existing piece of metal inside the hole. Sometimes, when machined or ground down, two separate pieces of metal appear as one since they are perfectly on the same plane.

I measured the i.d. of an upper tube where it presses in the block and it measured exactly .369", which matches the hole you measured perfectly. The o.d. of the lower tube should be right at .440", so both tubes you picked up seem to be in line.

Try a bolt extractor (easy out) to remove the old portion of the upper tube. If you try to drill it or tap it, you'll end up with metal shavings and the oil pan will have to come back off.

Also, you may want to replace the lower tube. Since you stated the flare "sheered off", you may not end up with a good seal around the outer edge of the flare. As stated by 66jack, it should be tight against the block. Since your tube was pressed trough a smaller hole and sheered, it probably will not end up with a very good seal.

If the chamfer is gone on your block and you have a hard time getting the new tube started, bump the tip of the tube slightly on a belt sander to make a slight point...kind of like sharpening a pencil. This may work better than trying to drill out a new chamfer because you don't want any material to fall into the hole. You should not have to remove and additional material from o.d. of the tube, just create a slight bevel.

Good luck

MikeM

Now that I've paid attention to the numbers, I'd say it's obvious you are correct.

I didn't really look at them until I measured a block.

The top of the chamfer is about .540.

The minor diameter of the block hole is .429/.430

Since I'm kinda' lazy, I'd still put some dum dum in the broken off upper tube, run a tap in the tube, thread a longer bolt in and give it a yank. It should easily come out.

Since it now looks like the lower tube was driven into a hole that was far to small, it'll have to be removed too. I'd try to get it out by running a stiff wire inside it with a short hook on the end and see if I couldn't fish it out that way. Once you get the upper tube out, the bottom tube should come out easily or might even come with the upper tube since it's wedged inside it.

I wouldn't pull the pan until I tried that.

larrywalk

With all the postings about this simple problem, I went out and measured a 010 block. The hole has a diameter of .432" at the upper end, and a diameter of ~.380" at the bottom end. These two diameters meet in the middle which makes a lip.

The bottom tube is inserted first from the top with flared end up. This tube goes down and sticks out about 2+ inches to guide the dipstick and keep it away from the crankshaft. The flare of this bottom tube stops in the middle when it contacts the internal lip. This tube slips in easily and doesn't require force.

The upper tube is inserted next and is a tight fit into the upper hole. This tube is pressed in until its ridge meets the block's deck.

If you can't get either tube in as noted above, there may be a broken piece of an older tube obstructing the hole as Adam suggests. You have to remove all of the older tube pieces.

Good luck!

Brumbach

I have tried the 3/8" tap method to remove remains of an old upper dipstick tube. Read it on an earlier posting. I screwed in the tap just far enough to get a grip, attached vice grips and hammered on the grips... gently at first and harder until the tap broke. I bought a second tap, attempted again but nothing inside the hole moved. Don't think the tap method is going to work. Sure hope there is an old tube in there somewhere... Any suggestions as to what I should try next?

Thanks

MikeM

You can always pull the pan and knock it out from below.