Hey gang


The gentleman who purchased my 65 Vert called yesterday saying that there was a strange sound coming from the engine when he was driving and wanted me to check it out . Went over to see what the problem was and the Harmonic ballancer was very loose of the crank.
I thought no big deal I will just tighten the 5/8ths Bolt After removing the fan and pulleys (A/C car) did not see any Bolt. The crank has a tappered end that is NOT threaded. How do I snug up the Harmonic balancer??

I tried stricking it by placing a 2X4 against it and hiting it with a 3 lbs sledge but it will not snug up. I know that some will say that cold cause thrust washer damage but other then doing this I can not think of any other way I have read the freezing the end of the crank may be a way to go but how can I accomplish this without removing the crank?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Stuck
BuffaloBILL

 

The factory had a special (non-pounding) tool (as seen in the service manual) for installing these.... if you pound on it you can cause the two parts (hub & inertia ring) to weaken & separate (ruin the damper). The rubber insert between the two parts is what separates. Sometimes it separates all by itself when the damper gets old and the rubber rots. Pounding on it just speeds up the process.

Edit: It wasn't a "non-pounding" tool... see my post below.

 

Are you saying the balancer won't go back or won't stay back?

If it won't go back, get rid of the wood and hit it with a steel hammer. If it won't stay back, I'd get another balancer and drill/tap the crank and put a bolt in it.

If you're just bumping on the balancer with the hammer, you won't damage the balancer at all other than skin a little paint.

 

After it's been rattling around for a while, damage has been done to both the damper and the crank nose. The motor should come out, parts inspected, a new seal installed, crank drilled and tapped, and damper pressed back on if there's no damage. Then bolted secure. If you just re-install it, odds are it will happen again, and quicker, and maybe do a lot of damage when it flies off.

 

The used car warranty just kicked in. Hope you don't have to live with this car for the remainer of your life. Instead of hammering on this part crack the manual and read the installation section. Wait til he gets to the trailing arm bearings. One can spend alot of quality time there.

 

I had a 327 engine that did this. All I did was get a new
key for the crank. Clean the end of the crank and inside of the
balancer with carb cleaner. Let dry and coat the inside of the
balancer and end of the crank with Locktite blue. Pound the
balancer on as snug as I could and let it dry over night.
The only way to get it off is with a puller and some heat on the balancer.
Worked for me.

Ray

 

Factory cranks, or any crank for that matter, do NOT have tapered ends, if the crank snout is tapered, is worn out from a loose balancer and must be replaced, or repaired by welding up and regrinding.

Doug

 

Looks like about a two pounder to me in the '63 service manual.

 

Maybe so... but my 66 manual shows the Kent-Moore tool that they used.

I can send you the pic if you're interested.

My 66 also has the "press on" balancer. I pressed it on by nudging the short block in between the rails of my hydraulic press.

But... pound away if you choose. The forums are littered with posts from people who screwed up their dampers by pounding them on... and by stories of dampers that have spun apart and gone through the hood. I'm just trying to make the world a safer place for pigeons. I don't care about dampers.

Edit: I need to clarify my stuff here...
The factory did pound them on, but using a tool that sandwiched the inner hub & outer ring so they stayed aligned during the process. Here is an old post from JohnZ... saved me the trouble of going home & looking up the tool number...

"Chevrolet had a special tool for this (J-22197), although I doubt if any mechanics ever used it; there are several illustrations and sections through it on page 6-7 and 6-8 of the '67 Chassis Overhaul Manual. "


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex_yJ_V5UH8

http://www.ringgear.net/Tech-Support...TION-TIPS.html

"The correct way to install a damper is to coat the crank snout and the ID of the hub with anti-seize compound and press the damper into place with a proper installation tool."

And here's another gem...
"FYI, it is a bad idea to hit the balancer to get it on, use the install tool. HOWEVER, Ford does mention in the installation instructions of their Ford Racing balancer that you can tap the balancer with a block of wood or aluminum with a hammer IF you heat the balancer by boiling it in water (15 min) or putting it in the oven @ 150-200 for 15 min and not letting cool before it's fully installed with the bolt. "


Fluidamper's "street damper" notes...

http://www.fluidampr.com/DOWNLOADS/S...PR_INSTALL.pdf

"• DO NOT use a hammer during installation"

 

I remember seeing a tool in a magazine recently, last year or two, that was made for drilling and tapping a crank while the engine was still installed in the car. however, now i cannot find it. I think i saw it in one of the major parts companies catalogs. I was not aware that the crank could be drilled and tapped after balancing.

 

The engine plant used a press with a clamp that grabbed the front crankshaft counterweight and pressed the balancer on. This way, you didn't jam the crank back against the rear thrust bearing like you did in your press.

There were several service tools. One of those tools was a flat plate that covered the two halves of the balancer and didn't let the outer ring deflect when struck with the two pound hammer which it clearly shows in the illustration. If you don't have the steel plate with the driver stub, a wooden block that straddles the whole balancer will serve the same purpose.

As far as the forum being littered with posts about damaged balancers, etc, did it ever occur to you that some of these balancers are around 50 years old and the rubber should be replaced on them anyway. That said, I still own a number of them that I've had off/on quite a few times over the years. I don't have the GM tool, never did and my rubber is in fine shape on all of them.

For most that have a feel for the proper use of a hammer, tapping the balancer on will not hurt it. Wild swings with heavy blows (pounding on them to use your words) to the damper can. Some people should not be allowed to even buy a hammer, let alone use one.

This forum has also been known to be littered with posts that share my same point of view.

I don't know anything about a Fluid Damper.

 

Fluid Damper is a well known manufacturer of aftermarket balancer/dampers. Their opinion should count for at least something.

When I press the damper on my 66... the engine is resting on the back end of the crankshaft... so no damage was done to the thrust bearing.

The tool that GM suggests in the service manual holds both parts of the damper together so that when they tapped it on, the outer inertia ring would not tend to shift position and break the bond between the two parts. I don't know what they did in production because I did not personally witness that. But this tool is their service suggestion.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one Mike.

You pound 'em on... and I'll press 'em on.

 

Before you go through the pounding routine, I would take the damper to a machine shop and determine if the hole is true. I would also get a micrometer and measure the crank snout in several areas to determine if there is a taper on the shaft. Let's hope the crank does not have to come out. If so, now is the time to repair and add a bolt to the crank via drilling and tapping the crank.. The damper can be repaired by Damper Dudes in CA. Their turnaround time is 5 days or less. Keep us posted. Jerry

 

I think what he is referring to is the tapered/beveled inside of the snout end of the crank when it is not drilled/tapped. Unless I misread

 

Correct

Thanks Guys

I will try to put some Ice on the Crank and purchase a new Balancer submerge it into Hot watewr and 2X4 "smack" it on to seat it.

Happy Holidays
Bill

 

Drilling the crank on-center removes material equally from all "sides" and won't affect balancing. When the throws are modified (such as when "knife edging") the balance will go off.

 

I know who they are, just don't how their balancers are made.



That's what I said.





I described it above.



Fair enough. No reason to take a couple hours to do two minutes work.

 

They used to sell woodruff keys that were oversized for the harmonic balancer keyway. Don't know if they are still available, but might be a quick solution

 

Q. I have a couple of 8 in. balancers that I refinished and I'm going to use one on a 327-350 build. Is there any way to tell from looking at the rubber to tell if it's still OK.....? (other than the obvious- timing mark not lining up near TDC from slippage)

 

If the rubber is cracked AND crumbling, I'd say you're do for a rebuild. If the rubber is still pliable, I'd use it.