I installed a TBI from Affordable Fuel Injection. It started on the first try and runs just fine. Cost $1,000. Maybe not high performance but it works.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...-complete.html

Apparently you don't need the single line unit either as someone mentioned a 97 corvette fuel filter would accomplish the same thing:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...-for-63-a.html

 

wow, never thought of it that way, but yeah i remember those units and i think they were on some bb trucks too.....

 

Yep, many brands of cars, thirty years or so ago, in the early days of electronic FI used the throttle body injection.

 

Not exactly accurate, but if it were, I guess the technology advance would only be about 20 years.....

 

This is just my humble opinion so please take it that way.

I think John Z is pretty much on the money.

I am not now, and have never been, a big proponent of TBI. It works; it does the job but it is not that much better than a properly tuned carburetor.


You have spent your money on this system and, like the guy who knows he messes up when he buys the Volvo, you will defend it to the bitter end. Don't change your position now because it will only display weakness.

I do hope for you that you are able to overcome the obstacles this particular system is presenting to you and have a good outcome. Your tenacity and resourcefulness will be a tribute to us all

 

The best thing Professional Products sells is their Super Hurricane intake manifold. I put that on my car with a Holley 850 double pump. I'm looking now to see if they have a Powerjection system for 850 and more cfm.

 

They have a 1,000cfm unit. I wouldnt buy it until this member posts back with his outcome. I dont recommend the system due to my experience with it, but two years later maybe they have worked out the issues

 

My recent experience is No.
Roy

 

No great news. I disassembled my HEI to check if it had any internal problems. None found.

Replaced the HEI with my original distributir, in which I (long ago) installed a Pertronix Igniter point conversion kit. Also went and bought an MSD6, as the tach signal from the MSD is required by the Powerjection ECU to verify the engine is running.

Installed everything last night, and now the engine will fire when I turn the key, but almost immediately dies. The exact opposite of what was happening with the HEI (would not fire, but when I disconnected the tack signal lead, it would then fire, then die).

Still no call back from the tech support department at Retrotek Speed.

I have learned a most valuable lesson from this. That is, to ONLY buy parts like this from a reputable distributor, such as Summit Racing or Jegs. In my zeal to save a few hundred bucks, I bought the system from autopartsdealer.com, a California outfit. I called their technical support department, who knew absolutely nothing about this product.. They put me on hold and called Retrotek Speed, and gave me the same story about the tech support department being out for 2 weeks.

In a moment of frustration, I said "Fine. This item is defective and I want to return it." Response: "if you have installed it in your car, it is used, and used items cannot be returned".

How would I know if it was defective if I didn't install it?

I'm going to wait until Monday and call Retrotek speed once again. Hopefully, their tech support department will be back from vacation. And hopefully they will have some idea of what the problem is.

In the meantime, I'll soldier on andtry to figure it out myself.

Any intelligent suggestions, advice, or experential guidance will be appreciated.

Comments telling me how dumb I am, or don't beat my wife enough will be disregarded. The intent of this documentary was to help others learn, while soliciting technical input.

 

I appreciate you writing all of this up! I bought their previous version (Boss EFI- 750cfm returnless system). I bought the system a couple years ago, but my mechanic made very little progress on my project. Recently changed shops, the body is coming off for the final time, getting painted and then the re-assembly takes place. I'll tag your write-up in case we run into any issues with our setup. Thanks for documenting!

 

Since you are basically screwed until Retrotek returns from winter break you might as well take a break yourself. You have most certainly soldiered on without their assistance and continuing to drive yourself nuts won't do you any good.

On the return of "used" parts see if Retrotek can get you going on their tech line. If they can not properly address the situation they should be quite willing to take back their defective unit. Your problem sure looks like the electrical harness is at fault.

 

That is exactly what my unit did. I could not get it passed an initial fire and 3-10 second rough run. I bought 3 different distributors trying to get it to run and spent probably close to 10 hours checking and reworking wiring to the distributor. Im sorry that i cant really help with your problems, but i thought maybe my story would let you know that you are not alone. It's not just one defective unit, it's a lot of them. In my opinion its the computer setup. They say you can simply put the engine displacement, etc into the laptop program and upload it to the computer and your car will start right up and run fantastic, but it's not that simple. You will need a pro tuner to fix the issue and even then i wouldn't expect a great outcome.
Im sorry for your troubles. If there is anyway to make it look like you never installed it, box it back up, and return it, i would. I ended up spending 1,000 on tuning and ate about 1,000 loss when i finally said enough and sold the system. So, it was a 2,000 loss overall plus the frustration and xxxxx amount of waisted hours trying to get it to run right.
Good luck!

 

Thanks for all the moral support. Oddly, I'm not frustrated or even all that upset. I'm not even all that surprised at the lack of support. I expect that I will ultimately find out what's wrong and fix it, then advise all the members on this forum.

 

I totally agree, John. There are much better, proven systems, available out there.

 

I completely de-installed then re-installed the system in its entirety. I verified that everything else in the car (ignition, MSD, distributor, wiring, grounds, etc.) is 100% operational and correct.

The result with the original distributor and MSD is the engine fires then dies. Similar to what happened earlier with the HEI.

Without any real documentation to further troubleshoot, I can go no further.

I tried to call Retrotek Speed / Propfessional Products, but no one answers. I had to send an email to the Sales Manger, which I am sure will not be read until Monday.

This is now a test of what Retrotek Speed / Propfessional Products is really made of. They can easily make my frustration go away by replacing the TBI with a new, operational one. A proper businessman will ship me one overnight so I can install it, and let me return the defective one afterward. This is how I operate my business, and probably why I can get a reference from anyone I have dealt with, anywhere in the world, for the past 30 years.

Again, a test of what Professional products is made of. I'm optomistic.

Following is the text of the message I had to send by email:





Hello,

We spoke twice recently regarding my Powerjection III system. You did not divulge your name, so I am simply addressing this message to Sales Manager. I have tried to call your office today, but there is no answer. When I "wait for the next available attendant", no one picks up. I presume you are closed.

I took the past two weeks off so that I may install the Powerjection III system on my 65 corvette coupe. I have been recording my progress for an article I am writing on the entire project. The ultimate goal was to build a restomod car which runs on E85; thus resulting in a low emission, classic car.

FYI; I am an engineer by education, own a high tech medical device company, am a published freelance writer, and a long time auto enthusiast. I have had multiple E-Stock national event wins, successfully campaigned a sponsored top alcohol dragster, and raced SCCA A production corvettes.

All this information to demonstrate that I have knowledge and experience in building and modifying high tech automobiles.

Unfortunately, the Powerjection III has dragged the project to a complete halt, as the unit I received is defective. The unavailability of your tech support staff for two weeks has further hurt. I tried to use the tech support department at Autopartsdealer.com, the distributor I purchased the system from, but they had no knowledge of your systems whatsoever. All they could do was place me on hold, call you, then give me the same information you had provided earlier regarding the tech support staff being on vacation.

Please recall my problem was the Powerjection III system caused my HEI distributor to become disabled, and no spark would be emitted. When disconnecting the black SP lead, the engine would fire from the residual fuel in the throttle body, but immediately die.


I have troubleshot the entire system. I have replaced the HEI distributor, even though I fully demonstrated its operational status on another engine.

I purchased and installed an MSD-6A unit, and installed it in accordance with the manufacturers instructions, Verified its operation, and connected it to a known good, and verified operational, stock corvette distributor with a Pertronix Igniter solid state breaker.

Connecting the GREEN CP wire to the MSD tach output now results in a similar situation, The engine will fire but will die after 1-2 seconds. It will not re-start when cranking again.

Not having a real manual (with schematics) to effectively troubleshoot, the only conclusion I can draw is there is some defect in the circuit which monitors RPM. I can't speculate as to what the remedy is.

I had called Autopartsdealer.com and spoke to a lad named Ben. I told him I wanted to return the system for a refund, as it is defective. he refused to take it back, as it is "used", considered such as I installed it on the car. He advised me that if I hadn't installed it, he would have taken it back. I asked him how I would have know it was defective if I had not installed it. He began dancing around, but the end result is that I have a defective product that your dealer will not take back.

I had hoped to finish this project and drive it on New Years Day. Clearly this isn't going to happen.

I would prefer that we come to an amicable resolution to this problem. Please call me.

For now, I need for you to immediately replace thee throttle body assembly, containing the ECU. I have absolutely verified there is no external problem with wiring, polarity, interconnections or grounds. The Fuel on Demand controller appears to be working properly, although it routinely loses communications with the PC while monitoring it. There appears to be plenty of fuel, as it registers 45-50 PSI on the dashboard software.

I am concerned about how the Powerjection III could disable the HEI Ignition by connecting the black SP lead to the Coil return (tach output of HEI). No permanent harm was done to the HEI.

I have not tested to determine if the PowerJection III also disables the MSD when the Green CP lead is connected to the MSD tach output. That point is moot.

Again, lets start by replacing the throttle body assembly. I purchased the complete returnless system in satin finish. I will reinstall it and advise you of my findings.

Please note there were other problems with the system upon arrival. The ultra high temperature gasket for the O2 sensor was missing. Please include one with the replacement throttle body.

Also note, the Locktite used on the Allen head pipe plugs located in the throttle body "fuel bowls", which you are instructed to remove and replace with the fuel pressure transducer, is stronger than the tensile strength of the pipe plugs. I presume they are made of aluminum. They cannot be easily removed, so I mounted the fuel pressure transducer externally. Please verify the front fuel bowl pipe plug is removable.

I pointed out several errors in the instruction manual to the first young man I spoke to before Christmas. I presume he is auctioning the revision of your manual so as to not confuse any other customers.

I hope that you can take some time out of your busy day to call. This number rings in my home, and I will pick it up if you call. Please bear in mind we are located in Connecticut, 3 hours time difference.

Thanks in advance for your attention.

Doug Steers

 

You have alot more patience than I do. Good luck with this.

 

I was s skinny little kid. I got beat up at least once a week by the neighborhood bullies. I remember my older sister telling my father about me getting beat up and crying ( I was 8), knowing it would **** the old boy off. He whipped the tar out of me, and told me I'd better learn to fight back, because the butt whipping I'd get from him would always be worse than the one I'd get from anybody in the 3rd, 4th of 5th grade.

Thats when I learned to never give up. I remember numerous times big kids sitting on my chest, ordering me to say uncle. Never did. Got the crap beat out of me even more. By the time high school rolled around, I caugut up size wiswe with these losers, and extracted my revenge on the footbell field, and on the baseball diamond. I pitched. Odd how many times I lost control and kathwacked those nincompoops in the noggin. Oops.

All this came back to me this past week, installing the EFI on my 65.

True, I received no help from the manufacturer. I was peeved, but hey, this is a car part for a hobby car. Not life saving medical equipment. I would soldier on, and figure out what the problem was and remedy it.

Fortunately, a forum member send me a copy of a prior version of the Powerjection III. It was significantly more comprehensive than the one distributed with the current unit.This got me to thinking, that perhaps other versions of the manual exist, that might have more info.

Bingo. A previous version call Boss EFI has almost the same components as the Powerjection III. The ECU is remote, rather than contained within the throttle body. The version downloadable on the Retrotek Speed website had a parts list, parts numbers, and a schematic. Holy moly. Even a troubleshoothig guide.

Why on earth would the newer version not have all this information in it? Only the management of Retrotek Speed knows.

Long story short. The portion of the RPM monitoring circuit in my unit is defective. However, the alternative method, whereby they monitor the square wave output of the MSD6, is seperate and apparently operational.

I deinstalled everything, again, then renstalled everything. I left the stock distributor in (with the Pertornix iinstalled). Installed the MSD again, following the special instructions for the Pertronix unit. In the meantime, I took the opportunity to install a new battery, and a new 1 wire alternator. I was going to do this anyway, but since I was in wiring mode, I figured, what the heck. Do it now.

Connected the battery, plugged in the laptop, verified all the settings, then turned the key.

It started, ran for a second, then died. Crap. I figured nothing changed.

Turned the key again, she fired. Ran for 5 or 6 seconds, then died.

Progress.

Another try, and she starts and runs untill I turn the key OFF, becasue I'm in barn and I don't want this to be my last New Years Eve..

She's alive and running,

I now own a 65 fuel injected Corvette.

 

way to go. i hope everything is fixed for you. best of luck jim

 

Way to stick with it my man!!! I can remember wanting to set fire to mine on a couple of occassions during the build.....but walked away to attack the problem another day. Congrats on your victory!!

R/
Jeff

P.S
Sent you a PM.

 

I might have missed this in a prior post, but how many miles do you intend to drive this car per year?

Happy new year!

Gerry