legit BB ?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2011
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From: fairfield/ fort myers connecticut/ fla.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,691
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From: columbus oh
the fuel supply line is longer and fatter than a small block and has a more gradual almost 90 deg. bend to mate to the fuel pump
there should be an extra clip for the battery cable mounted just under the heater core box on the firewall
there should be 4 mounting holes for a surge tank on the pass side that were filled from the factory with resin
that's 4 things and im sure there is a sticky on this subject...good luck...
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,681
Likes: 3,678
From: Central Arkansas
- Has a rear sway bar
- The diff. yokes have caps for the u-joints instead of U-bolts
- The metal fuel line leading to the fuel pump has a 90 deg bend in it - the 327 line has something more like a 45 deg bend.
- Copper radiator with integral expansion tank - no overflow tank.
- Front coils are not progressive and slightly thicker wire and has a slightly larger front sway bar but a lot of this stuff gets changed over the years.
- Hood support on drivers side except for early built cars.
- L72 has an 80 lb oil pressure gage. Some L36 BBs do also. 327 cars had 60 psi gage.
- L72 cars should have a transister ignition and amplifier or evidence that one was once there.
There are others that someone will follow along and mention.
- The diff. yokes have caps for the u-joints instead of U-bolts
- The metal fuel line leading to the fuel pump has a 90 deg bend in it - the 327 line has something more like a 45 deg bend.
- Copper radiator with integral expansion tank - no overflow tank.
- Front coils are not progressive and slightly thicker wire and has a slightly larger front sway bar but a lot of this stuff gets changed over the years.
- Hood support on drivers side except for early built cars.
- L72 has an 80 lb oil pressure gage. Some L36 BBs do also. 327 cars had 60 psi gage.
- L72 cars should have a transister ignition and amplifier or evidence that one was once there.
There are others that someone will follow along and mention.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,232
Likes: 419
So the car once had a big block, but the engine is gone and there is no documentation. Does it really matter then whether or not what the car started life as? Without either the engine or documentation, there will never be any way to prove what it really was. And you'll never be able to built it to something that has more than the value of the parts you put into it.
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: fairfield/ fort myers connecticut/ fla.
legit BB?
- Has a rear sway bar
- The diff. yokes have caps for the u-joints instead of U-bolts
- The metal fuel line leading to the fuel pump has a 90 deg bend in it - the 327 line has something more like a 45 deg bend.
- Copper radiator with integral expansion tank - no overflow tank.
- Front coils are not progressive and slightly thicker wire and has a slightly larger front sway bar but a lot of this stuff gets changed over the years.
- Hood support on drivers side except for early built cars.
- L72 has an 80 lb oil pressure gage. Some L36 BBs do also. 327 cars had 60 psi gage.
- L72 cars should have a transister ignition and amplifier or evidence that one was once there.
There are others that someone will follow along and mention.
- The diff. yokes have caps for the u-joints instead of U-bolts
- The metal fuel line leading to the fuel pump has a 90 deg bend in it - the 327 line has something more like a 45 deg bend.
- Copper radiator with integral expansion tank - no overflow tank.
- Front coils are not progressive and slightly thicker wire and has a slightly larger front sway bar but a lot of this stuff gets changed over the years.
- Hood support on drivers side except for early built cars.
- L72 has an 80 lb oil pressure gage. Some L36 BBs do also. 327 cars had 60 psi gage.
- L72 cars should have a transister ignition and amplifier or evidence that one was once there.
There are others that someone will follow along and mention.
getting suspicious!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 755
Likes: 4
From: Toronto Ontario
At least two people on this thread claim that all BB came with Transistor Ignition or that you had to order the TI option with the BB option. I am told by an NCRS judge that this is not the case.
Here, for example, is a window sticker of a '66 BB that came without TI:
For comparison, here's a window sticker of a '66 BB that did come with TI:
Here, for example, is a window sticker of a '66 BB that came without TI:
For comparison, here's a window sticker of a '66 BB that did come with TI:
Last edited by BrentF; Apr 16, 2011 at 09:59 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,232
Likes: 419
2. Your window sticker is clearly not an original window sticker. And the information is bogus as all L72s had option K66. This is confirmed by Nolan Adams research which showed the ECL usage for the L72 K66 combination to match the L72 production.
3. By the way, the following is what a real window sticker looks like (from a 67 which is very similar to the 66):
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 5,399
Likes: 985
From: Itasca IL
So the car once had a big block, but the engine is gone and there is no documentation. Does it really matter then whether or not what the car started life as? Without either the engine or documentation, there will never be any way to prove what it really was. And you'll never be able to built it to something that has more than the value of the parts you put into it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 755
Likes: 4
From: Toronto Ontario
bb62 said 1. You obviously were not reading the prior posts. They stated that all solid lifter big blocks (in 1966 that's the 425/450HP 427) had TI, not that all big blocks had TI.
I think my reading comprehension is pretty good. What do you suppose was meant by:
midyearvette "all 425/450 horse 66 cars were equipped with transistor ignition"
DansYellow66 " L72 cars should have a transister ignition and amplifier or evidence that one was once there."
bb62 said 2. Your window sticker is clearly not an original window sticker. And the information is bogus as all L72s had option K66. This is confirmed by Nolan Adams research which showed the ECL usage for the L72 K66 combination to match the L72 production.
I merely provided these as evidence that the theory that all 427/450 BB came with TI may not be true, as claimed by the NCRS judge who I spoke with recently
bb62 said 3. By the way, the following is what a real window sticker looks like (from a 67 which is very similar to the 66):
Yes, except its not a '66 is it, and model years do differ in terms of options like TI. I was focused on the content of the window sticker and not its originality per se.
I think my reading comprehension is pretty good. What do you suppose was meant by:
midyearvette "all 425/450 horse 66 cars were equipped with transistor ignition"
DansYellow66 " L72 cars should have a transister ignition and amplifier or evidence that one was once there."
bb62 said 2. Your window sticker is clearly not an original window sticker. And the information is bogus as all L72s had option K66. This is confirmed by Nolan Adams research which showed the ECL usage for the L72 K66 combination to match the L72 production.
I merely provided these as evidence that the theory that all 427/450 BB came with TI may not be true, as claimed by the NCRS judge who I spoke with recently
bb62 said 3. By the way, the following is what a real window sticker looks like (from a 67 which is very similar to the 66):
Yes, except its not a '66 is it, and model years do differ in terms of options like TI. I was focused on the content of the window sticker and not its originality per se.
Last edited by BrentF; Apr 16, 2011 at 11:18 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 87
From: Northern MN
St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15-'16-'17
Maybe the one you are looking at is one of those "rare" ones that had the hood support on the passenger side. I am thinking that you should be more than suspicious on this one.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
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b62 said 1. You obviously were not reading the prior posts. They stated that all solid lifter big blocks (in 1966 that's the 425/450HP 427) had TI, not that all big blocks had TI.
I think my reading comprehension is pretty good. What do you suppose was meant by:
midyearvette "all 425/450 horse 66 cars were equipped with transistor ignition"
DansYellow66 " L72 cars should have a transister ignition and amplifier or evidence that one was once there."
Unfortunately, if your comprehension is good, your knowledge of Corvettes must be lacking. Both midyearvette and DansYellow66 are noting the 425HP big block which is the solid lifter big block were required to have K66. Notice that nowhere does anyone mention that the 390HP hydraulic lifter big block had to have K66. All 5258 L72 1966 Corvettes came with K66 Transistorized Ignition - this is a documented fact. But only 1253 of the 5116 390HP big block 1966 corvettes were ordered with K66.
bb62 said 2. Your window sticker is clearly not an original window sticker. And the information is bogus as all L72s had option K66. This is confirmed by Nolan Adams research which showed the ECL usage for the L72 K66 combination to match the L72 production.
I merely provided these as evidence that the theory that all 427/450 BB came with TI may not be true, as claimed by the NCRS judge who I spoke with recently
How can your window stickers be evidence seeing that they are bogus window stickers? There is no NCRS judge that would claim that 1966 L72 would not have K66 (I have also judged with the NCRS). Perhaps you should look at the judging manual.
bb62 said 3. By the way, the following is what a real window sticker looks like (from a 67 which is very similar to the 66):
Yes, except its not a '66 is it, and model years do differ in terms of options like TI. I was focused on the content of the window sticker and not its originality per se.
First, the 1966 and 1967 window stickers are practically identical. Second, how can you trust the content of a bogus window sticker. The information on it is plainly wrong.
I think my reading comprehension is pretty good. What do you suppose was meant by:
midyearvette "all 425/450 horse 66 cars were equipped with transistor ignition"
DansYellow66 " L72 cars should have a transister ignition and amplifier or evidence that one was once there."
Unfortunately, if your comprehension is good, your knowledge of Corvettes must be lacking. Both midyearvette and DansYellow66 are noting the 425HP big block which is the solid lifter big block were required to have K66. Notice that nowhere does anyone mention that the 390HP hydraulic lifter big block had to have K66. All 5258 L72 1966 Corvettes came with K66 Transistorized Ignition - this is a documented fact. But only 1253 of the 5116 390HP big block 1966 corvettes were ordered with K66.
bb62 said 2. Your window sticker is clearly not an original window sticker. And the information is bogus as all L72s had option K66. This is confirmed by Nolan Adams research which showed the ECL usage for the L72 K66 combination to match the L72 production.
I merely provided these as evidence that the theory that all 427/450 BB came with TI may not be true, as claimed by the NCRS judge who I spoke with recently
How can your window stickers be evidence seeing that they are bogus window stickers? There is no NCRS judge that would claim that 1966 L72 would not have K66 (I have also judged with the NCRS). Perhaps you should look at the judging manual.
bb62 said 3. By the way, the following is what a real window sticker looks like (from a 67 which is very similar to the 66):
Yes, except its not a '66 is it, and model years do differ in terms of options like TI. I was focused on the content of the window sticker and not its originality per se.
First, the 1966 and 1967 window stickers are practically identical. Second, how can you trust the content of a bogus window sticker. The information on it is plainly wrong.
Administrator
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Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Central Arkansas
I'm hanging in with BB62 and Noland on the transister ignition on all solid lifter BB cars. I'm merely passing on second hand knowledge and limited experience with owning 2 BB cars, but it's going to take more than a reproduction window sticker for me to throw that out the window.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,681
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From: Central Arkansas
That would be suspicious. It could have had a front clip replaced at some time but there should be indications that the hood originally had the hood support on the driver side at one point if its the original hood.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 755
Likes: 4
From: Toronto Ontario
b62 said: Unfortunately, if your comprehension is good, your knowledge of Corvettes must be lacking.
That remains to be seen, as we will discuss in the comments below.
b62 said: Both midyearvette and DansYellow66 are noting the 425HP big block which is the solid lifter big block were required to have K66. Notice that nowhere does anyone mention that the 390HP hydraulic lifter big block had to have K66. All 5258 L72 1966 Corvettes came with K66 Transistorized Ignition - this is a documented fact. But only 1253 of the 5116 390HP big block 1966 corvettes were ordered with K66.
Notice that nor did I. I was referring to the L72.
b62 said:How can your window stickers be evidence seeing that they are bogus window stickers? There is no NCRS judge that would claim that 1966 L72 would not have K66 (I have also judged with the NCRS). Perhaps you should look at the judging manual.
My apologies if this Corvette hobby is filled with people producing bogus window stickers and passing them off as original or being fact-based in nature....which in my opinion reflects very poorly on the "hobby", wouldn't you say?
b62 said:First, the 1966 and 1967 window stickers are practically identical. Second, how can you trust the content of a bogus window sticker. The information on it is plainly wrong.
Yes which does nothing to change the fact that your '67 window sticker is not a '66 window sticker. Would you like me to show you a '65 window sticker? Didn't think so.
Unlike you, I don't proclaim to be an expert, but nor am I going to accept the pronouncements of self proclaimed experts as being necessarily true, especially in a case such as this where two such self proclaimed experts as saying the opposite thing (you and the NCRS judge who I spoke with recently). In those situations I need hard evidence to resolve the matter. So far you have provided none, apart from quoting other self proclaimed experts. On the question of whether 427/425 BB's in 1966 always came with TI or not as a mandatory option, I refer you to this website:
http://www.vettefacts.com/C2/1966.aspx
Notice that there were 5,528 447/425 L72 BBs produced in 1966 and only 3,628 vehicles with the K66/TI option. Perhaps you could explain this discrepancy, since obviously these numbers would indicate that not all L72's were equipped with TI which is consistent with what I was told by an NCRS judge.
That remains to be seen, as we will discuss in the comments below.
b62 said: Both midyearvette and DansYellow66 are noting the 425HP big block which is the solid lifter big block were required to have K66. Notice that nowhere does anyone mention that the 390HP hydraulic lifter big block had to have K66. All 5258 L72 1966 Corvettes came with K66 Transistorized Ignition - this is a documented fact. But only 1253 of the 5116 390HP big block 1966 corvettes were ordered with K66.
Notice that nor did I. I was referring to the L72.
b62 said:How can your window stickers be evidence seeing that they are bogus window stickers? There is no NCRS judge that would claim that 1966 L72 would not have K66 (I have also judged with the NCRS). Perhaps you should look at the judging manual.
My apologies if this Corvette hobby is filled with people producing bogus window stickers and passing them off as original or being fact-based in nature....which in my opinion reflects very poorly on the "hobby", wouldn't you say?
b62 said:First, the 1966 and 1967 window stickers are practically identical. Second, how can you trust the content of a bogus window sticker. The information on it is plainly wrong.
Yes which does nothing to change the fact that your '67 window sticker is not a '66 window sticker. Would you like me to show you a '65 window sticker? Didn't think so.
Unlike you, I don't proclaim to be an expert, but nor am I going to accept the pronouncements of self proclaimed experts as being necessarily true, especially in a case such as this where two such self proclaimed experts as saying the opposite thing (you and the NCRS judge who I spoke with recently). In those situations I need hard evidence to resolve the matter. So far you have provided none, apart from quoting other self proclaimed experts. On the question of whether 427/425 BB's in 1966 always came with TI or not as a mandatory option, I refer you to this website:
http://www.vettefacts.com/C2/1966.aspx
Notice that there were 5,528 447/425 L72 BBs produced in 1966 and only 3,628 vehicles with the K66/TI option. Perhaps you could explain this discrepancy, since obviously these numbers would indicate that not all L72's were equipped with TI which is consistent with what I was told by an NCRS judge.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,191
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From: Corpus Christi, TX
Another clue (that I learned on this forum BTW) is at least for an L72 car, the sticker on the instrument cluster should have the letters "LB"
FWIW, the assembly instruction manual (RPO L72, sheet A2) lists that the distbutor is assembled the same as for RPO K-66 (TI).
After spending way too much money restoring my car based on the 80 lb oil gauge, 6500 redline tach, radiator support/radiator, original location of the hood prop, big block stub axle yokes, sticking my head under the dash and seeing that sticker was a huge relief!
FWIW, the assembly instruction manual (RPO L72, sheet A2) lists that the distbutor is assembled the same as for RPO K-66 (TI).
After spending way too much money restoring my car based on the 80 lb oil gauge, 6500 redline tach, radiator support/radiator, original location of the hood prop, big block stub axle yokes, sticking my head under the dash and seeing that sticker was a huge relief!
Last edited by Avispa; Apr 17, 2011 at 10:25 AM.