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'63 ignition

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Old May 6, 2011 | 01:53 AM
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Default '63 ignition

I just reinstalled the dash for the 3rd time due to speedo problems. Now when I try to start it as soon as the key returns to the on position from the start position the engine dies immediately. I've checked out the fuel system and it is not the problem. It's ignition which I know nothing about and its driving me nuts. I've been doing some trouble shooting trying to isolate the problem. It ran fine when I parked it last October. Consequently I have some questions:
1) With the key in the on position should there be voltage across the + and - terminals of the coil? When I tested it, there wasn't.
2) With the key in the on position should there be voltage across the terminals on the porcelain resistor located on the firewall? When I tested it, there wasn't.
3) With the key in the on position should there be voltage between each terminal and ground? When I tested it, there was.
4) Should there be continuity across the terminals of the resistor. When I tested it there was. But as I mentioned in #2 above when I tested for voltage there wasn't any.

Any thoughts, suggestions would be appreciated.

When I'm in my Vette, and it's running I'm.........FLNGOOD
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Old May 6, 2011 | 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by FLNGOOD
1) With the key in the on position should there be voltage across the + and - terminals of the coil? When I tested it, there wasn't.
2) With the key in the on position should there be voltage across the terminals on the porcelain resistor located on the firewall? When I tested it, there wasn't.
3) With the key in the on position should there be voltage between each terminal and ground? When I tested it, there was.
4) Should there be continuity across the terminals of the resistor. When I tested it there was. But as I mentioned in #2 above when I tested for voltage there wasn't any.
Q1&2-With the Key ON you should have ~ 9v to the + side of the coil and ~ 12v+ across the resistor
Q3-Which terminals ?
Q4-Yes
It sounds like you are only getting power to the coil while cranking.
This happens because there is a resistor bypass wire (yellow I think) from the (I) terminal of the starter to provide
12v+ to the coil only while cranking.

It sounds like a faulty IGN switch, providing power to the starter to crank but no power to the coil for IGN
That's my guess, seeing as the dash has been in & out a few times.

I've been out of the corvette world for awhile, so I hope this information is correct and helps.
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Old May 6, 2011 | 11:17 AM
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There should be power to the black with pink tracer wire coming out to the ignition switch when key is in on position. Turn key on, then try wipers or radio, or turn signals. If any of these work, the switch is OK, and it is a wiring issue to the resistor for the coil, since the wiring diagram shows one terminal on the switch, with two wires, for both ignition and key on power for the accessories. Put the test light on the ignition resistor, and wiggle the bulkhead connectors. If nothing works, then it is a switch, or switch connection issue. The fact that is cranks tells me that the battery feed to the switch is good.
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Old May 6, 2011 | 12:11 PM
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Whoops I wasn't clear on that. On #3 I'm referring to the terminals on the porcelain resistor
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Old May 6, 2011 | 07:11 PM
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The fact that you have continuity with all the wires connected and the ignition switch "on" could mean the continuity is taking a roundabout path through the circuit wires, not that the firewall resistor and the wire from it to the coil are both good.

I'm looking at the wiring diagram, and the two wires attached to the ignition switch side of the coil are labelled "P"... I assume that means "pink". When you are starting the car, the coil is powered by a pink wire from the starter solenoid; when you release the ignition key, the starter solenoid no longer passes power to the coil, the coil is then powered by a second pink wire from the firewall resistor. That switch in the coil's power source happens as you release the ignition key.

Try removing both wires from the resistor (ignition off) and see if you then have continuity through the resistor. If you do, then remove both pink wires from the "+" terminal of the coil and make sure you have end-to-end continuity through the pink wire (from the resistor to the coil terminal end). Turn the ignition "on" and see if you have voltage at the end of the wire (from the ignition switch) that attaches to the resistor.

If you have an ohmmeter, the (unwired) resistor should measure either 1.4 ohms or 0.3 ohms... from notes I've saved, it seems the coil, and the mating resistor, were changed during the '63 model year; the early cars have an "091" coil and 0.3 ohm resistor, the later cars with 250 and 300 hp engines used a "087" coil and a 1.4 ohm resistor, but from your post it sounds like you haven't changed the coil or the resistor.

My guess is that you'll find your resistor is bad.

Last edited by waynec; May 6, 2011 at 07:32 PM.
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Old May 6, 2011 | 10:08 PM
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This will probably sound like a dumb question, but when I connect my voltmeter across the 2 terminals of the porcelain resistor should I get a reading? If so, how many volts? I have done that and I get no voltage. However I do get continuity.
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Old May 7, 2011 | 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by FLNGOOD
This will probably sound like a dumb question, but when I connect my voltmeter across the 2 terminals of the porcelain resistor should I get a reading? If so, how many volts? I have done that and I get no voltage. However I do get continuity.
If there is current passing through the resistor, you should get some reading with a volt meter.
But that is not the best way to trouble shoot this.
Easiest thing to do is, ground a test light and see if it lights up on both sides of the resistor with the IGN on.
Of not, test the IGN only fuses in the fuse box to see if you have power there with the IGN on.
If you have no power at the resistor and no power at the fusebox, the most likely cause is the IGN switch.
If you have power at the fusebox and no power to the resistor, it may be a bulkhead connector problem.
With a volt meter, the coil side of the resistor should have ~ 9v with the IGN on
A test light is a "must have" for anyone that owns one of these cars.
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Old May 7, 2011 | 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by FLNGOOD
This will probably sound like a dumb question, but when I connect my voltmeter across the 2 terminals of the porcelain resistor should I get a reading? If so, how many volts? I have done that and I get no voltage. However I do get continuity.
Once again: If you don't disconnect at least one of the wires from the resistor, you have no way of knowing whether the continuity you see on your ohmmeter is directly through the resistor or looping around through the wiring and ground circuits the long way... as an extreme example, if you take a single long wire and connect each end to one terminal of a resistor (forming one big loop), and then measure continuity by touching an ohmmeter lead to each terminal of the resistor, you will read near-zero ohms (continuity), but then if you break/sever the resistor into two completely separate pieces, you'll STILL have continuity because the wire loop still connects the resistor terminals; the resistor is irrelevant in that situation, doesn't matter if it is intact or not... you have to isolate it to be certain you are testing the resistor itself (and not testing some other part of the circuit).

When you touch a voltmeter's leads to 2 places where there are 12v, you will not see a reading, since the voltmeter reads the difference in voltage between the two leads... those places you are touching may both be at 12v (no difference in voltage), or both be at zero volts, you can't be sure which. You would have to touch one lead (negative lead) to a known ground (no voltage) and then touch the second (positive) lead to each of the places you want to test for voltage.

Last edited by waynec; May 7, 2011 at 04:06 AM.
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Old May 7, 2011 | 04:04 AM
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oops
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Old May 14, 2011 | 01:22 PM
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First of all I want to say I Love You Guys. Secondly I apologize for taking so long in responding. Like I said in my first entry I'm not an electrical guy. I don't like to work on it, I don't like it, I don't understand it but with the help you all have offered I've learned quite a bit. Now what I'm about to say will prove my point and I hope you won't be angry or think I'm a total moron.........but if you do I won't blame you. After following a lot of your advice I located a wire that I determined should have continuity. So I traced it through the firewall, inside under the dash. That was not easy as I had to use mirrors to follow it up and over the steering column and in back of the dash cluster. Well low and behold it wound up at a toggle switch. I've always wondered what it's purpose was and now I know. It is a kill switch. I think when I reinstalled the the dash cluster, for the 3rd time, I must have accidently tripped it. I've tripped it before when the engine was running and nothing happened. Not sure why except maybe the engine is running off the alternator at that point. So there you have it. A lot of your time, my time wasted. So thank you for your help. It is running fine now and I'm FLNGOOD.

PS - Warning, I'll be back :>)
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Old May 14, 2011 | 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by FLNGOOD
So there you have it. A lot of your time, my time wasted. So thank you for your help. It is running fine now and I'm FLNGOOD. PS - Warning, I'll be back :>)
Most people are here to help for no personal gain, just because they want to, so no time wasted.
But a kill switch usually breaks the connection between the + side of the coil or grounds the - side of the coil.
So I can't imagine how the car could run with the switch OFF ?
But anyway, I'm happy you fixed it and learned something in the process.
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