Muncie Question
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Pro
Joined: Jun 2011
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Muncie Question
I have a 1960, but the engine is a 1966 327/300 and the trans is a 1966 Muncie 4 sp. Car has not been driven in about 30 yrs; engine is pulled out, trans is in place. I am trying to determine whether I should pull the trans and rebuild or just fill with fluid and see how it goes.
Even with engine out I was having trouble moving shifter (stock shifter). I took out the shifter to rebuild/clean and found the interlock lever was broken, probably causing it to block the shifter from moving to other positions. Replaced interlock. Next I went to drain the fluid to examine condition and check for filings, but found that there was no fluid in case. Then I pulled off the side cover to get a visual inspection - everything I could see appeared to be in very good shape -no obvious worn or broken teeth.
Should I: 1. Just pull the trans and rebuild, since I am not sure of condition and engine is already out? or, 2. Fill with fluid, re-install shifter, and if it moves smoothly forget trans rebuild at this time - since all that I can see looks good and for all I know the previous owner may have just rebuilt trans 30 years ago.
Is there anything else I can do to determine condition of trans without tearing it apart?
Thanks for any advice or suggestions.
Even with engine out I was having trouble moving shifter (stock shifter). I took out the shifter to rebuild/clean and found the interlock lever was broken, probably causing it to block the shifter from moving to other positions. Replaced interlock. Next I went to drain the fluid to examine condition and check for filings, but found that there was no fluid in case. Then I pulled off the side cover to get a visual inspection - everything I could see appeared to be in very good shape -no obvious worn or broken teeth.
Should I: 1. Just pull the trans and rebuild, since I am not sure of condition and engine is already out? or, 2. Fill with fluid, re-install shifter, and if it moves smoothly forget trans rebuild at this time - since all that I can see looks good and for all I know the previous owner may have just rebuilt trans 30 years ago.
Is there anything else I can do to determine condition of trans without tearing it apart?
Thanks for any advice or suggestions.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,550
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From: Naples, Fl. USA
I bought a 65 with the original Muncie. The original engine was ling gone, but the seller indicated the tran had been rebuilt. Not wanting to take a chance, I had my mechanic go thru the tranny to check the synchronizers and gears. It turned out fine, but it is so much easier to check it out of the car instead of possibly having a problem down the road.
If the shifter works ok, and doesn't have any slop in the linkage, it will probably be fine. Shifter rebuild kits are available from vendors such as Zip.
If the shifter works ok, and doesn't have any slop in the linkage, it will probably be fine. Shifter rebuild kits are available from vendors such as Zip.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Lake Minnetonka, Mn
2018 C1 of Year Finalist
The problem lies, typcially, with 2nd and 3rd gear and the engagement teeth ON the gears. Also, the brass synchros need to be examined, too, as well as the sliders, and that isn't as easy to determine when they are in the trans as when it is apart. Thirty years is a long time and I would suspect the input and main shaft bearings need to be replaced, as well.
My suggestion is to enlist the service of someone who knows these boxes and have it looked at and, possibly, disassembled and checked. Rebuilding one is easy and you may want to try it yourself. A rebuild kit with new sychros, gears and hubs (master kit includes gaskets, bearings, etc) will run around $500.00
If you elect to not tear it down, at least replace the retainer bearing gasket, the side cover gasket, and the rear seal in the tail. Good luck.
If it was mine, and it was out of the car, I would go through it. You may just need synchros.
Last edited by Dan Hampton; Sep 13, 2011 at 03:52 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Lake Minnetonka, Mn
2018 C1 of Year Finalist
When ordering the kit and other gears you might want to purchase the special wrench that removes the gland nut on the input shaft. Fairly inexpensive and it will save you a lot of time and trouble.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,828
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From: Florida
Since that case wouldn't have a bottom drain (I don't think so), that lube didn't just drip out over time and I doubt it would evaporate without serious sludge left behind. If it was run empty or low-low-low like mine was, I bet you'll have worn gears. $0.02
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Melting Slicks
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Advanced
Joined: May 2009
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From: webster ma
I'd like to see a pic of the drain plug too. I got a muncie out of a friends basement that had been sitting for 20 or 30 years. I stood it on end and drained what little oil was in there, filled it with sythetic and have put about 1k hard miles on since. It leaks a little but whatever. performs nice
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,840
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From: Towaco NJ
Where to start, $500 for a rebuild kit is way out of line. About 25% of that. Sorry Don. I can fix a blown transmission with new bearings and gears for way less than that.
I would pull the cover, look at the brass syncros and reciever teeth on each gear. If they are sharp, they should be OK. Check the engagement of the syncro cone to the cone on each gear. If tight before getting close the other surface, it is OK.
Check the forks for wear. If visiable, replace. That is only a minor improvement. Unkown histoy, I would replace all the needles, seals and two roller bearings. They are really cheap. Front fearing maybe $25, main bearing $13. Call Auto gear, ask for George.
Where the oil went, who knows over 30 years. It will not leak lower than the counter shaft usually. Drain plug?? 1966 trans?? M22?? No oil on the 30 year old floor??
As for adding a drain plug is Bubba, is just plain BS. Those of us that accually drive our cars, like these corvettes were meant to drive, we add drain plugs for service reasons.
I would pull the cover, look at the brass syncros and reciever teeth on each gear. If they are sharp, they should be OK. Check the engagement of the syncro cone to the cone on each gear. If tight before getting close the other surface, it is OK.
Check the forks for wear. If visiable, replace. That is only a minor improvement. Unkown histoy, I would replace all the needles, seals and two roller bearings. They are really cheap. Front fearing maybe $25, main bearing $13. Call Auto gear, ask for George.
Where the oil went, who knows over 30 years. It will not leak lower than the counter shaft usually. Drain plug?? 1966 trans?? M22?? No oil on the 30 year old floor??
As for adding a drain plug is Bubba, is just plain BS. Those of us that accually drive our cars, like these corvettes were meant to drive, we add drain plugs for service reasons.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,662
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From: Lake Minnetonka, Mn
2018 C1 of Year Finalist
. About 25% of that. Sorry Don. I can fix a blown transmission with new bearings and gears for way less than that.
I would pull the cover, look at the brass syncros and reciever teeth on each gear. If they are sharp, they should be OK. Check the engagement of the syncro cone to the cone on each gear. If tight before getting close the other surface, it is OK.
Check the forks for wear. If visiable, replace. That is only a minor improvement. Unkown histoy, I would replace all the needles, seals and two roller bearings. They are really cheap. Front fearing maybe $25, main bearing $13. Call Auto gear, ask for George.
Where the oil went, who knows over 30 years. It will not leak lower than the counter shaft usually. Drain plug?? 1966 trans?? M22?? No oil on the 30 year old floor??
As for adding a drain plug is Bubba, is just plain BS. Those of us that accually drive our cars, like these corvettes were meant to drive, we add drain plugs for service reasons.
I would pull the cover, look at the brass syncros and reciever teeth on each gear. If they are sharp, they should be OK. Check the engagement of the syncro cone to the cone on each gear. If tight before getting close the other surface, it is OK.
Check the forks for wear. If visiable, replace. That is only a minor improvement. Unkown histoy, I would replace all the needles, seals and two roller bearings. They are really cheap. Front fearing maybe $25, main bearing $13. Call Auto gear, ask for George.
Where the oil went, who knows over 30 years. It will not leak lower than the counter shaft usually. Drain plug?? 1966 trans?? M22?? No oil on the 30 year old floor??
As for adding a drain plug is Bubba, is just plain BS. Those of us that accually drive our cars, like these corvettes were meant to drive, we add drain plugs for service reasons.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Norcal CA
2018 C1 of Year Finalist
Okay, here is what an old transmission mechanic told me... First drain out any old oil from the case. Add fresh oil and see if it shifts fine in each gear and spin the heck out of it. Then drain all of the fluid in the bucket. Then drain the fliud once more through something which can capture all of the small particles. Check to see what is left. If just brass shavings then chances are the transmission will work fine. Add fresh oil once the job is completed.
I did install a M21 in a 62. It still had oil in the transmission when I bought it. Bubba was not there when I did the job.
Now, I did this and have not had any problems so far with the transimission. I did have some linkage problems though that was my fault with missaligned shifter.
Also, I cleaned up the transmission case using simple green or purple power, scrub brush and a power washer. It had some nice patina on the casing.
I did install a M21 in a 62. It still had oil in the transmission when I bought it. Bubba was not there when I did the job.
Now, I did this and have not had any problems so far with the transimission. I did have some linkage problems though that was my fault with missaligned shifter.
Also, I cleaned up the transmission case using simple green or purple power, scrub brush and a power washer. It had some nice patina on the casing.
Last edited by jimh_1962; Sep 15, 2011 at 12:12 PM.
Le Mans Master
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Here are a couple of pictures of the common wear items that you can see without disassembling the box.
Also look for obvious broken teeth.
Joe
Also look for obvious broken teeth.
Joe
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2011
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Just an update. Read all the post above, performed a number of checks and inspections suggested and everything seemed to be in good shape. Then, a pure stroke of luck. Standing in front of me in line at a Best Buy is a fellow with a shirt advertising a transmission shop - and a picture of a 1961 corvette. Turns out he owns a repair shop and raced his '61 for years. Said he would be more than happy to look at my tranny. Took it over the next day and he recommended I not go into it. Said everything seemed to be in very good shape - a barely noticable wear on second gear, but should not affect anything. Recommended cleaniing it up, replace a couple of gaskets & seals, should be good to go. I will follow his advice and I thank all who have given theirs.
