4 speed vs Automatic- effect on car value ?
12-11-2011, 08:27 AM
#41
Burning Brakes
I would be the last one to claim any real mechanical knowledge but I seem to remember from my high school days of pushing the Powerglide cars to get them started. It seemed like we needed to get above 35 mph and off they went. I don't even want to think about such a move with my 54.
12-11-2011, 08:40 AM
#42
Burning Brakes
As mentioned above about Ferrari. This year they discontinued the true "stick" and all are now clutchless paddle shifted "stick" where the clutch is controlled by the computer. Nothing shifts faster. Down shifting the computer evens blips the gas to hit right RPM range like a road racer. And at speed it is "power shifting". Last few years both Ferrari and Lamborghini have had only about 10% true "stick" sales and 90 % F-I trans sales. So Ferrari went all F-1 now. It is not an automatic with a paddle shifter but a true 6 speed with a clutch but all controlled by computer though the paddle shifter. Developed in their F-1 racing cars. All F-1 cars now use similar systems.
The current Corvette paddle shifter is an automatic.
The current Corvette paddle shifter is an automatic.
12-11-2011, 09:06 AM
#43
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The Z06 and ZR1 only come with a manual, because GM doesn't have an automatic that can handle the torque of these engines.
The Corvette finally got a three speed automatic in '68, by '70 the automatics outsold the manuals and have for every year since by a large margin.
Two thirds of new Corvettes sold today come with slushboxes, you can bet your bottom dollar that GM would offer it in the Z's if they had it.
When you get into the European high end performance cars, true manuals are all but gone, a sad situation for all of us who prefer to do their own shifting.
Paul
The Corvette finally got a three speed automatic in '68, by '70 the automatics outsold the manuals and have for every year since by a large margin.
Two thirds of new Corvettes sold today come with slushboxes, you can bet your bottom dollar that GM would offer it in the Z's if they had it.
When you get into the European high end performance cars, true manuals are all but gone, a sad situation for all of us who prefer to do their own shifting.
Paul
It was '72 not '70. I think the desire of the automatic was due to a demographic shift to older owners. The post '72 Corvettes of that decade were some of the worst cars ever produced. Unequivocally, absolute pieces of overweight, underpowered junk.
The owners of C6 cars today still cater to the post 50 age group. I will not join the local club in my area for the simple reason that it is simply a "drive and dine" club with no interest in competition. You will not find a manual transmission in that group. Not exactly the type of organization that would attract Tom Parsons.
12-11-2011, 09:23 AM
#44
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12-11-2011, 10:25 AM
#45
Melting Slicks
Ya, but can you push start any of these cars with an auto tranny? I don't know of any.
So why the hell would you EVER want to push start a car? Ever accidently leave a light or an accessory on, only to return to discover that the battery is so low that it can't turn over the starter? Or that the battery has just finally given up the ghost, or that the starter is on it's last leg and can't turn over the engine? Oh, excuse me, I'm sorry, there's probably no one here who has ever had to push start their Corvette-----------------or any other car. Any way, you can't do it with an auto tranny.
Auto trannys????? Nah, I'll pass!
Tom Parsons
So why the hell would you EVER want to push start a car? Ever accidently leave a light or an accessory on, only to return to discover that the battery is so low that it can't turn over the starter? Or that the battery has just finally given up the ghost, or that the starter is on it's last leg and can't turn over the engine? Oh, excuse me, I'm sorry, there's probably no one here who has ever had to push start their Corvette-----------------or any other car. Any way, you can't do it with an auto tranny.
Auto trannys????? Nah, I'll pass!
Tom Parsons
You ever pushed started a Vette with a dead battery and stock alternator?
12-11-2011, 10:31 AM
#46
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12-11-2011, 10:32 AM
#47
Le Mans Master
Ya, but can you push start any of these cars with an auto tranny? I don't know of any.
So why the hell would you EVER want to push start a car? Ever accidently leave a light or an accessory on, only to return to discover that the battery is so low that it can't turn over the starter? Or that the battery has just finally given up the ghost, or that the starter is on it's last leg and can't turn over the engine? Oh, excuse me, I'm sorry, there's probably no one here who has ever had to push start their Corvette-----------------or any other car. Any way, you can't do it with an auto tranny.
Auto trannys????? Nah, I'll pass!
Tom Parsons
So why the hell would you EVER want to push start a car? Ever accidently leave a light or an accessory on, only to return to discover that the battery is so low that it can't turn over the starter? Or that the battery has just finally given up the ghost, or that the starter is on it's last leg and can't turn over the engine? Oh, excuse me, I'm sorry, there's probably no one here who has ever had to push start their Corvette-----------------or any other car. Any way, you can't do it with an auto tranny.
Auto trannys????? Nah, I'll pass!
Tom Parsons
I would be the last one to claim any real mechanical knowledge but I seem to remember from my high school days of pushing the Powerglide cars to get them started. It seemed like we needed to get above 35 mph and off they went. I don't even want to think about such a move with my 54.
Further, you don't necessarily have to push either a manual or PG car to start it as long as you have a good downhill spot available . . . .
12-11-2011, 10:33 AM
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12-11-2011, 10:37 AM
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I would be the last one to claim any real mechanical knowledge but I seem to remember from my high school days of pushing the Powerglide cars to get them started. It seemed like we needed to get above 35 mph and off they went. I don't even want to think about such a move with my 54.
Tom Parsons
12-11-2011, 10:57 AM
#50
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About every 6 months we get to enjoy this age old debate. (random sarcastic thoughts follow)
I am ever amazed in these discussions to learn that women can't drive stick shifts. Is this due to some mental or physical deficiency? Perhaps some combination of medication or physical therapy would help.
When these cars were new, ~90% of buyers sought out stick shifts. Now that these cars are 45 years old, the ratio has plummeted to maybe 85%.
Of course automatics shift faster, so what?
=================================
I am in Tom's camp on this one. No slushboxes for me, including daily drivers.
I am ever amazed in these discussions to learn that women can't drive stick shifts. Is this due to some mental or physical deficiency? Perhaps some combination of medication or physical therapy would help.
When these cars were new, ~90% of buyers sought out stick shifts. Now that these cars are 45 years old, the ratio has plummeted to maybe 85%.
Of course automatics shift faster, so what?
=================================
I am in Tom's camp on this one. No slushboxes for me, including daily drivers.
12-11-2011, 11:19 AM
#51
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About every 6 months we get to enjoy this age old debate. (random sarcastic thoughts follow)
I am ever amazed in these discussions to learn that women can't drive stick shifts. Is this due to some mental or physical deficiency? Perhaps some combination of medication or physical therapy would help.
When these cars were new, ~90% of buyers sought out stick shifts. Now that these cars are 45 years old, the ratio has plummeted to maybe 85%.
Of course automatics shift faster, so what?
=================================
I am in Tom's camp on this one. No slushboxes for me, including daily drivers.
I am ever amazed in these discussions to learn that women can't drive stick shifts. Is this due to some mental or physical deficiency? Perhaps some combination of medication or physical therapy would help.
When these cars were new, ~90% of buyers sought out stick shifts. Now that these cars are 45 years old, the ratio has plummeted to maybe 85%.
Of course automatics shift faster, so what?
=================================
I am in Tom's camp on this one. No slushboxes for me, including daily drivers.
If ANY of you ever pull up beside a blue 70 Chevelle conv with a kind of overweight 60ish lady behind the wheel, don't screw with her-----------------------unless your car is a rocket ship. She'll blow your doors off (by the way, ignore the 307 emblems
)! GOD I love my wife! This is HER car (by the way, her first car was a 69 3sp Mustang
).
Tom Parsons
Last edited by DZAUTO; 12-11-2011 at 11:21 AM.
12-11-2011, 11:38 AM
#52
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Generally speaking, I would say that a powerglide car would have had a less abussive life, than a maual transmission car. There is a better chance of being a no-hit survivor with the original engine, etc.
This is my opinion, but I believe there is some validity. The transmission can always be swapped over to a manual, if you desire, and keep the auto parts on the shelf.
This is my opinion, but I believe there is some validity. The transmission can always be swapped over to a manual, if you desire, and keep the auto parts on the shelf.
12-11-2011, 12:13 PM
#53
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When my wife was a teenager, her grandfather brought home a car he had reposessed. It had a stick and she asked him to teach her how to drive it. Later on, she bought her first car which was a '65 VW stick and has driven stick ever since. She currently has a '98 Turbo Eclipse with a 5-speed that she is going to give up to make room in the garage for a midyear. The only thing she asks is that it be a convertible and have a 4-speed. She says she wants to drive it, not just point it where she wants to go.
-- Steve
-- Steve
12-11-2011, 12:33 PM
#54
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I have prosecuted about a dozen criminals over the years who got caught because the car they took to get away or steal was a stick and they couldn't drive it. 
but true
but true
12-11-2011, 01:07 PM
#55
Safety Car
But seriously folks...
I stand corrected Dan, you're right, it was in '72 that the auto passed the manual and not '70 like I had said.
Makes me wonder though, was it really a sudden change in demographics, or more that you could finally get a modern three speed automatic in a Vette?
John once explained that the PG was the only auto that could take the torque and fit in the C2, and that's why it wasn't until the '68 redesign that TH became available.
Even the lowly Mustang had a three sped auto from '65, by '67 the PG sure must have appeared low-tech in a Vette, especially considering that about half of them sold that year had BB's (even more today
).Sales of the autos more than doubled in '68, and then continued to climb rapidly until passing the manuals forever in '72.
Just my opinion, but I would strongly suspect that had the TH been available in the C2, a much higher percentage of C2's would have been automatics.
Paul
12-11-2011, 01:30 PM
#56
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And that's a bad thing?
But seriously folks...
I stand corrected Dan, you're right, it was in '72 that the auto passed the manual and not '70 like I had said.
Makes me wonder though, was it really a sudden change in demographics, or more that you could finally get a modern three speed automatic in a Vette?
John once explained that the PG was the only auto that could take the torque and fit in the C2, and that's why it wasn't until the '68 redesign that TH became available.
Even the lowly Mustang had a three sped auto from '65, by '67 the PG sure must have appeared low-tech in a Vette, especially considering that about half of them sold that year had BB's (even more today).
Sales of the autos more than doubled in '68, and then continued to climb rapidly until passing the manuals forever in '72.
Just my opinion, but I would strongly suspect that had the TH been available in the C2, a much higher percentage of C2's would have been automatics.
Paul
But seriously folks...
I stand corrected Dan, you're right, it was in '72 that the auto passed the manual and not '70 like I had said.
Makes me wonder though, was it really a sudden change in demographics, or more that you could finally get a modern three speed automatic in a Vette?
John once explained that the PG was the only auto that could take the torque and fit in the C2, and that's why it wasn't until the '68 redesign that TH became available.
Even the lowly Mustang had a three sped auto from '65, by '67 the PG sure must have appeared low-tech in a Vette, especially considering that about half of them sold that year had BB's (even more today
).Sales of the autos more than doubled in '68, and then continued to climb rapidly until passing the manuals forever in '72.
Just my opinion, but I would strongly suspect that had the TH been available in the C2, a much higher percentage of C2's would have been automatics.
Paul
You could be right. The demographic was changing, I think, but normally the curve is more gradual than that. I remember that time period fairly well and it seemed like the post 30 age group was the predominant buyer of the '70 cars. One has to wonder if the automatic purchase was to placate the spouse.
One thing is for sure today and that is the age group of these cars is really something quite different from the 1950s and 60s gen group. Besides myself, owning a Z06, I know of no other C5 or C6 owner who has a manual and most of these guys are in their sixties.
Last edited by Dan Hampton; 12-11-2011 at 01:32 PM.
12-11-2011, 04:02 PM
#58
Melting Slicks
Many things conribute to the choice of transmissions these days.
As mentioned, driving conditions... such as smaller country town setting or crowded city driving.....and amount the car is actually driven.
Is it a driver or a pampered Saturday cruiser? Is it a stock vintage car ...or a modernized restomod in an old body.
Which is fastest, in the old days was the main criteria...not much has changed there. But all the other stuff has changed.
I think that there is one common ground...no one wants to be second best...the BEST one wins every time, regardless of the hype. Which is best, depends on all the above.
One thing for certain...it isn't always a stick...or an auto. Consistant ET's on the drag strip killed stick transmissions...but are still a LOT of fun on the street.
Most fun...fastest ET...not always the same thing. Most fun is not always a stick either...try Houston traffic at 5 oclock in a gridlock. When your clutch knee quits quivvering it's fun again...or not!
Every car has a personality and use...choose the trans that fits the car and driver. One size "does not" fit all, all other things being equal. There is always one best...it's just that sometimes it's a stick and sometimes it's an auto.
I was 38 years old before I had anything other than a stick...street drags was what it was all about up till then. On the strip...I had to give in, the turbo autos had the edge..
Stan...
As mentioned, driving conditions... such as smaller country town setting or crowded city driving.....and amount the car is actually driven.
Is it a driver or a pampered Saturday cruiser? Is it a stock vintage car ...or a modernized restomod in an old body.
Which is fastest, in the old days was the main criteria...not much has changed there. But all the other stuff has changed.
I think that there is one common ground...no one wants to be second best...the BEST one wins every time, regardless of the hype. Which is best, depends on all the above.
One thing for certain...it isn't always a stick...or an auto. Consistant ET's on the drag strip killed stick transmissions...but are still a LOT of fun on the street.
Most fun...fastest ET...not always the same thing. Most fun is not always a stick either...try Houston traffic at 5 oclock in a gridlock. When your clutch knee quits quivvering it's fun again...or not!
Every car has a personality and use...choose the trans that fits the car and driver. One size "does not" fit all, all other things being equal. There is always one best...it's just that sometimes it's a stick and sometimes it's an auto.
I was 38 years old before I had anything other than a stick...street drags was what it was all about up till then. On the strip...I had to give in, the turbo autos had the edge..
Stan...
Last edited by Stan's Customs; 12-11-2011 at 04:10 PM.
12-11-2011, 04:05 PM
#59
Tech Contributor
12-11-2011, 04:46 PM
#60
I SHOULD keep my opinions to myself------------------but I won't on this issue.
I know that a lot of people (yes, and some of you are on here) own a Corvette strictly for the status symbol. They could give a flip less about the performance features of a Corvette.
Personally, I am not capeable of comprehending owning a Corvette with an automatic tranny. I view that in the same perspective as two boys having sex, it's just wrong! Frequently, some people use the excuse of their age as the reason for having an auto tranny and that they're just too old and too tired to mess with shifting anymore. OK, fine, then probably a Corvette is not the car for them to be driving. In 3 more days, I'll be 69. I own, and DRIVE a REALLY primative 4sp Corvette (56). And sometimes (translate every chance I get) I abuse the dog poopy out of it. I view the Corvette as a performance car, borderline hotrod, not a granny grocery getter. After the 56 was introduced, it was primarily promoted as a performance sports car. Then when the 57 got all the goodies, it became America's kickass factory hotrod. That's what I saw then---------------that's what I see today. The guys that drove them then were down to earth performance lovers. Today, not so much. Today, it's "Look at me, I own a high dollar Corvette, and I spend XYZ dollars every chance I get just so that I can demonstrate my socio-economic status". That doesn't impress me. Yes, it's nice to be independantly wealthy, I wish I were. But I pray to God that if I ever win the lottery, I will not allow myself to fall into that image.
So, to me, Corvettes with auto trannys are for sissys and girlie men.
Tom Parsons
I know that a lot of people (yes, and some of you are on here) own a Corvette strictly for the status symbol. They could give a flip less about the performance features of a Corvette.
Personally, I am not capeable of comprehending owning a Corvette with an automatic tranny. I view that in the same perspective as two boys having sex, it's just wrong! Frequently, some people use the excuse of their age as the reason for having an auto tranny and that they're just too old and too tired to mess with shifting anymore. OK, fine, then probably a Corvette is not the car for them to be driving. In 3 more days, I'll be 69. I own, and DRIVE a REALLY primative 4sp Corvette (56). And sometimes (translate every chance I get) I abuse the dog poopy out of it. I view the Corvette as a performance car, borderline hotrod, not a granny grocery getter. After the 56 was introduced, it was primarily promoted as a performance sports car. Then when the 57 got all the goodies, it became America's kickass factory hotrod. That's what I saw then---------------that's what I see today. The guys that drove them then were down to earth performance lovers. Today, not so much. Today, it's "Look at me, I own a high dollar Corvette, and I spend XYZ dollars every chance I get just so that I can demonstrate my socio-economic status". That doesn't impress me. Yes, it's nice to be independantly wealthy, I wish I were. But I pray to God that if I ever win the lottery, I will not allow myself to fall into that image.
So, to me, Corvettes with auto trannys are for sissys and girlie men.
Tom Parsons
A Corvette is a car, a nice one, agreed, but everyone has their own opinion and needs. For instance, you would not catch me dead in a Red Car, whether a Vette or any car. I personally hate red. I am in the minority but nevertheless when I buy a car, I would never buy red.
Automatic? Who cares? PGs were no hell but Muncies doing 3K+ at 60mph for long drives is no "fun either".
Having a 4 speed does nothing to your ********* as far as I know, mine are the same length before the 4 speed and after.
Nowadays you can get 5speed manual slap stick automatics that would make the old Muncie cry. Selecting "D" occasionally just works.
More and more people including drag racers are selecting slap style automatics because the technology advances are amazing.
I am 6'1" 240 pounds and will likely be putting in an automatic slap......girlie man? I think not.
Would I like to have my wife who is 5 foot and 100 soaking ringing wet be able to drive it.... yup. Gladly will put up a new 5 speed auto against and old Muncie anytime. I have one now, and have driven the new Automatics, they are both great, the slap sticks are amazing.
So if a person wants to get into a C2 cheaper, buy the Auto, then in time replace the PG with a 5 speed.
Last edited by TC233; 12-11-2011 at 04:50 PM.