I saw a thread about chipped paint and I got to wondering...what kind of paint are people using? I had my car painted with PPG Concept. It has a coat of color then sanded and then 3-4 coats of clear. One of the biggest reasons I am interested in this is because I don't have but one tiny mark on the front of my car. I think it will rub out with Prep Team to be honest. On top of that, I didn't even want to mention this, but I am going to. I towed my car open with no protection behind a 27 foot box truck. You know the biggest moving truck you can rent. That is right, I drove non stop for 1200 miles with my '60 behind that big truck. It rained quit a bit of the way on top of that.

I think PPG Concept is great paint. It is not cheap, but it seems to hold up very well. My paint is 5 or 6 years old, but didn't see use until last year. Anyone else have a thought on this?

Curt

 

First let me say that I am an end user and not an industry person or chemist, so if the terms are not exactly correct, dont give me too hard of a time. There are three basic types of paint used today.

1) Lacquer: The type used today is the acrilic version of the older nitro celulose lacquer.

2) Base coat clear coat: This is the most common. It uses an acrilic enamal base color, which usually has a flatner added to promote adhesion of the clear which is urethane

3) Urethane: Used straight without clear coat. Solid colors mostly. This is very durable and has high resistance to chipping. Brand name most widely recognized I is Imron.

There is also an epoxy line, but is usually used as primers and sealers.

 

I plan to get the 64 painted in the next year or so and have been poking around for info. Since my car is an everyday driver and I want durability, above all else I've been told to go with a "soft" paint that absorbs spurious road hazards, whether regular or basecoat/clearcoat.

 

Check into PPG Concept if you want something that lasts. It is pretty amazing so far for me, but I was hoping to get more of a response from the group. I guess people don't know what the paint guy used on their cars. I did some research on paint and choose PPG from what I found out.

Enjoy,
Curt

 

Wombvette is more experienced with than I am, but I respectfully think there are some errors in his descriptions.

Base coat/Clear coat (BC/CC or two-stage) is generally urethane for both stages, color AND clear. It's different than the old lacquer (or enamel) style of shoot color and then use a clear for protection and depth. Instead, it's called two-stage because the color coats look very flat and off-color until they chemically react with the clear. Unless it was for some odd effect, you would never use the base coat alone.

Enamel can be shot with or without clear coats. If you shoot clear over enamel, though, it is not called base coat/clear coat. It's just "enamel with clear over it." Same with lacquer.

Also, I believe that Imron is POLYurethane, rather than urethane. I think nobody uses it anymore except for truck fleets or something like that.

PPG Concept is urethane, but I believe it is not a two-stage (BC/CC) system. That's why you could sand it before you shot your clear coat. You're not supposed to do that with base coats of two-stage systems. You're only supposed to sand the clear.

I used Spies-Hecker two-stage urethane for my '58. It came out well, especially considering how little experience I have, but in hindsight, I should have maybe gone with a single stage urethane (PPG concept, for example), so that I could sand it before shooting clear. It would have been less stressful, because with BC/CC I had to try and make the base color coat as perfect as possible without being able to correct flaws with sandpaper.

Truth is, I did do a little sanding fo the base coat, followed by mist color coats to correct a few errors, but that's a story I'll write about later when I finish my color sanding and buffing. :rolleyes:

Again, I am strictly ameteur, so I may have some facts confused, but this has been my understanding of the different systems. :cheers:

- Mike Greene


[Modified by 58Mike, 10:29 AM 5/30/2002]

 

The single stage paints, whether 1 or 2 component can be "cut and buffed" if they are solid colors. (Not metallic)

 

An expert bodyman / painter, neighbor of mine
(who moved out of the area by the way:cry )
Swore by, and used "Glasurit" on the last car I had painted.
I sold it after a few years, but it looked and held up great!
He used all their products, primer etc. Very expensive,
but he said it was the best.
Have not heard of anyone using it on a Vette?,
anyone have info on Glasurit?
Just thought I would throw it out there.
:D

 

I have two cars that are done with PPG base / clear. The first car was done by a semi pro painter and Street Rodder who works out of his house. He wont use anything else. I am EXTREMELY satisfied with his work, the paint itself as far as looks and especially durability. The second car I did myself as a result of the experience I had with the first car.

The paint is bullet proof. Bird droppings, bugs whatever hit it I just wash them off and if necessary hit the spots with a little 3M " Finesse It " One car is black and as I think anyone familiar would know black is a PIA to keep in tip top shape. It looks great and I can always remove any wash swirls that show up with a light touch of the 3M polishing material

For my money anyone who insists on laquer is just asking for an inferior end product in terms of durability.

 

I've used the PPG urethane Deltron basecoat/Concept 2001 clearcoat (BC/CC) system on every project car I've done since 1994 - incredible stuff; terrific gloss, highly bird-poop and U.V.- resistant. Glasurit is even better - my 17-year-old Ferrari has Glasurit from the factory, and it still looks like it was painted yesterday. The materials aren't cheap, and it's essential to use all matched products from the same manufacturer to ensure that it's all chemically compatible (primers, sealers, reducers, etc.). If you're going to spend BIG $$ anyway for all the prep labor for a premium paint job, spend the money for the best materials.

 

Polyurethane, urethane same thing as far as I am concerned. I think we are splitting hairs here. The base coat part of most BC/CC systems is infact an Acrillic enamel base product. They use the same mixing colors with a different binder. Flattning is added to make the CC stick. Check it out.

 

Uhhh . . . I was trying to tactful, here. :rolleyes:

Polyurethane (Imron) is very different from urethane. Chemically, the "poly" makes a big difference. Amongst the differences are that polyurethane has a very limited choice of colors and although scratch resistant, it chips very easily. There is no polyurethane BC/CC system. Sometimes, polyurethane elements are used in other products, PPG with their Delstar enamel, for instance. Dupont's Imron is still around, but is used primarily for commercial fleets.

Base coats for BC/CC urethane systems are not flattened acrylic enamel, but are in fact urethane . . . with no flatteners. Years ago, they could use enamel toners with base coat because the formulation was different, but those days are long gone. Today, auto paint stores have separate toners for urethane and enamel and they're not interchangeable. Call one up and check it out (I did :D ).

- Mike Greene

 

I am not sure if Ditzler Deltron base coat is enamel ???
My paint is in its 14th year - except fo the touch ups.

 

Thanks John, you confirmed what I thought I knew........ :D
Wonder why more are not aware of it?
If I didn't want to go back with Lacquer, that's what I would use.
Just my 2 :cheers:

 

Mike, I dont know what your credentials are here. I have stated that mine are from the end user standpoint, but I have seen the evolution of paint systems over the last 30 years. I have most all of them I think, not all brand names but systems.
I have searched around since we started this discussion and have found the following. Just about every manufacturer of urethane products used the term almost interchangably. Some times they use poly, sometimes, acrylic, sometimes just, urethane and some other variants. The term "poly" means more than one, not necessarily different types. The same PPG hardners work with every urethane, polyurethane, acrylic urethane etc. product they make. I do know that some, maybe I should have not said most, BC systems do use the exact same mixing colors in their BC systems as their acrylic enamel systems, and they do have flatners in there. I have mixed them myself, personally. Maybe the different binders convert the system to a urethane base, I really dont know the chemistry. It is probably safe to say that some companies use a urethane BC system and some do not. I will however continue to stand behind My statement that urethane or polyurethane, they are essentially the same and as far automotive paints go. I contacted the PPG tec line this morning and got this responce to our question. " Wayne, Thank you for your interest in PPG products. You are correct ... urethanes and polyurethanes essentially are the same as they relate to automotive paint systems. PPG basecoats are acrylic and the clearcoats are Acrylic urethanes or polyurethanes." :)

 

I painted my daughter's car today with Dupont urethane, followed by two coats of clear urethane. Gloss is really excellent and the durability ought to be about as good as you get in a street paint job. I'll be interested to see what it looks like in a year or two.